In a record-breaking week, Kamala Harris has united the Democratic party behind her, with significant momentum and grassroots support. Former Senator Claire McCaskill and former White House Communications Director Jennifer Palmieri liken it to the energy felt in the Obama campaign, especially as online support grows organically among younger voters. They also take a beat to reflect on President Biden’s heartfelt address to the nation Wednesday night, and the legacy he leaves after decades of public service. Then, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz stops by, to chat veepstakes, explain the Democratic Convention rules, and highlight some important governors’ races to watch in November. And lastly, Claire and Jen dispel the myth of the vice president as a ‘DEI’ candidate with a reality check: JD Vance is the candidate who’s been handed everything he has.
Further reading: As promised, here is Governor Tim Walz’ winning hotdish recipe from the Minnesota Congressional Delegation’s Hotdish Off: Turkey Trot Tater Tot Hotdish.
Note: This is a rough transcript. Please excuse any typos.
Jennifer Palmieri: Hello, welcome to “How to Win 2024.” It’s Thursday, July 25th. I’m Jennifer Palmieri, and I’m here with my co-pilot, Claire McCaskill. Hi, Claire.
Claire McCaskill: Hey, can you hear my voice? I’m another year older.
Jennifer Palmieri: I know. Everyone, it was Claire’s birthday yesterday.
Claire McCaskill: So old.
Jennifer Palmieri: It’s very exciting.
Claire McCaskill: So old. I spent the day in the swimming pool with my three-year-old delicious granddaughter.
Jennifer Palmieri: Betty Ann (ph). I met her in our prep call yesterday.
Claire McCaskill: Oh, Betty Ann (ph) is a deal. I asked her if she wanted to go swimming with me, and she said, well, Cece (ph), of course. Like, you know, like she was 25, you know?
Jennifer Palmieri: So cute.
Claire McCaskill: So —
Jennifer Palmieri: And like, here’s an important development you might not be aware of. Claire knows this, I’m missing my parents, and I made a peach pie last night. Homemade crust, by the way, I always was terrible at it. Salt, fat, acid, heat. That is the best. You’re nodding. That recipe, even somebody like me who is not good at crust, you mix a phenomenal crust.
Claire McCaskill: Yes. Well, it’s the season for peaches. I thought your pie was beautiful. And in honor of you, Jen, I’m going to make a peach crumble for dinner tonight, so. Yeah.
Jennifer Palmieri: Love it.
Claire McCaskill: There we go.
Jennifer Palmieri: So since we spoke on Monday, Democratic coalitions continue to unite behind Vice President Harris’ bid for the White House, making her so far the unchallenged de facto nominee. We’re about 100 days out from the election, people, and the pressure valve has been released to her immense benefit.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah, it’s not official until it’s official.
Jennifer Palmieri: Right.
Claire McCaskill: But there is so much energy. I mean, we talked about this, and it was in an environment that was difficult and painful and hard. I know I irritated a lot of loyal Democrats by how I spoke about this election in those painful weeks between the time of the debate and the time that President Biden did, in fact, pass the torch. But this enthusiasm that’s been released is so powerful and it’s so fun. And we’ll dig into the latest about that energy.
And then Minnesota Governor Tim Walz is going to stop by to give us the lay of the land on a few things, excitement in the party right now, sorting out the Democratic convention rules and the most important governor’s races to watch in November.
Jennifer Palmieri: And before we wrap today’s episode, a quick reality check on this DEI attack that is coming on Vice President Harris. And this is something that I’ve done a lot of research on because I’ve, you know, written a couple of books about women leaders and people are trying to help the vice president and how they respond. There are some things people should know about the most effective ways to do that, that lift up the vice president and don’t diminish her because that’s what they’re trying to do. Also, Claire has a lot to say about J.D. Vance. And if there’s a candidate who fell out of a coconut tree and had their path paid for them, it is him. But wow, let’s take in where we find ourselves on a Thursday.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah, 102 days is our best friend. I love a sprint.
Jennifer Palmieri: It’s so good. This is so good. Okay, so Steve Kornacki reminded us that it’s only about 65 days until voting starts in some states because a lot of states have early voting, right? So that’s going to start in September. The excitement is it’s like 2008, but somehow more powerful because it’s condensed, right. Is that how it feels? How does that feel to you?
Claire McCaskill: Yeah, I agree. I think it’s a wonderful stew of relief tinged with sadness, but relief. And then there’s also, wait a minute, this is going to be so cool. This is so historic. We’re going to be able to fix what happened in 2016. And finally, we will look to the top leader in the world and it will be a woman. And how delicious is that that these guys are wanting to take us back to a time? I mean, J.D. Vance is one of these like, oh, it would be really important for men to be the sole breadwinner and women to stay home and all this stuff that is, my mother would say if she were still with us, I thought we handled that.
Jennifer Palmieri: Right.
Claire McCaskill: You know, I thought we took care of that. So she’s taken the center stage with a really powerful message, too. It’s not just the organic we won’t go back chant that happened.
Jennifer Palmieri: But let’s pause on that for a second, because it’s really important. You know, a few days ago I got asked from people on the outside, like, what kind of signage do you think the Harris campaign should be using? And I was like, I don’t know. I think something will probably organically pop that. And sure enough, she has a message about how, you know, we’re not going back. And a crowd picked it up, started chanting it organically.
(BEGIN AUDIO TAPE)
Kamala Harris: We are not going back. Not going back.
Audience: We’re not going back! We are not going back! We’re not going back!
(END AUDIO TAPE)
Jennifer Palmieri: As happened with President Obama’s campaign with “Fired Up and Ready to Go.”
Claire McCaskill: Yep.
Jennifer Palmieri: Started by one old lady.
Claire McCaskill: Right.
Jennifer Palmieri: In South Carolina. He was having a low day and she was like, fired up, ready to go. And that’s the same kind of energy we’re hitting here. But sorry, go on.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah. So I thought her pitch perfect trolling at her very first rally as a presidential candidate. Let’s listen to how on point she was.
(BEGIN AUDIO TAPE)
Kamala Harris: Before I was elected United States senator, I was elected Attorney General of the state of California, and I was a courtroom prosecutor before then. And in those roles, I took on perpetrators of all kinds. Predators who abused women. Fraudsters who ripped off consumers. Cheaters who broke the rules for their own gain. So hear me when I say I know Donald Trump’s type.
(END AUDIO TAPE)
Claire McCaskill: Okay.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: And then we’ve got this other cool thing is now we have a really old man who can’t put two sentences together on the other side.
Jennifer Palmieri: It’s so true. I mean, it’s so true. Not that he’s ever made sense as a presidential candidate, but there’s definitely a change where he can actually string a couple sentences together. And there is something that I want to say specifically about the condensed timeframe that, again, a little historical perspective about women leaders that might not be obvious. So as people may know, America’s never had a woman leader. One of the reasons why people think that has not happened here is because we do not have a parliamentary system. Most countries that have had female leaders, they have a parliamentary system. And that’s different because we make our candidates go through a very long, drawn out primary process.
In Hillary Clinton’s case, for example, we announced in April of 2015, obviously the election was more than, you know, almost 18 months later. In a parliamentary process, a woman leader is selected to head the party by a relatively small number of folks in the party. And then they’re presented to the country as the winner. Here’s the winner of our nominating process. And then you have a relatively short sprint. In the U.K. It’s only six weeks to an election, right. And so the problem for women leaders is, you know, in like in 2020, it takes a long time for women candidates in a big field to break through. We recognize the sort of potential of a male candidate sooner.
Think of Buttigieg, Beto, Bernie, Biden in 2020. Right. That was sort of the story of 2020. Six great women running. They really never broke through. Nobody won a primary. Or you win the primary, but you come at it with a ton of having survived a lot of attacks. And that makes for difficulty in the general election. That’s sort of the Clinton experience in 2016. And so this is kind of an ideal scenario for electing a woman. Kamala Harris is being presented to us, not as someone who’s gone through a battered primary, but as the winner and a lot of excitement and relief about it.
And, you know, Claire, it’s funny because some of the best, we’re going to talk about the memes, and, you know, if I were in the room, how you would continue to exploit them. Some of the best memes that are helping the vice president have been pointed out to us by the RNC, right? The Republicans. And it reminds me of Trump, right. In that, you know, in 2015 and ‘16, when other Republicans or Democrats would attack something about Trump, his supporters would be like, yeah, whatever. We like that because they just really had his back and he touched something deep within them that they wanted to support. And now that’s happening with her.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah. And if I were in the room, I would not overthink anything that’s going on right now because —
Jennifer Palmieri: Right.
Claire McCaskill: — I think there is a tendency of people who run campaigns. I’m not talking about you, Jen, but having been around a few that thinks that they know better than what may be going on organically. And this is an instance where the organic movement here is really paving the way for them. There’s a couple of key elements, as I want to talk to Governor Walz about freedom, the future and joy. I mean, I love it that the Republicans have made a deal about her laughing. I hope they do it all day long. I love it. I love it. And every woman in America knows that that’s stuff like that, that have been used against them unfairly. You know, we used to say husbands, hair and hemlines. Those were the three H’s that we had to deal with as women candidates. So laugh away and have joy and smile and laughter because the other side’s dark.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: And the Bernie Bros are getting in the act here. Charli XCX, I think it’s a really good sign that something happened on this campaign almost immediately that I had no idea what it was. Who knew about Brat Summer?
Jennifer Palmieri: Oh yeah, Brat Summer. Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: And my kids told me not to even talk about it. So I’m not because they said, it’s just embarrassing for you, mother. Do not go there. So I’ll leave it to the kids. But the point is that young people have enveloped this campaign online. Women are very excited. I think voters of color have a reason to be enthusiastic now. It really is a win, win, win, win, win.
Jennifer Palmieri: And the other thing that is that, you know, it’s the positive stuff on the Harris side and then J.D. Vance in particular, really turning women off with this, like talking about childless cat ladies. That pissed off Jennifer Aniston. And so she weighed in to talk about how, you know, talking about IVF and how, you know, she hoped that his daughter would never have trouble having children because, you know, it’s something that millions of families, women struggle with. And I was like, all right, Rachel has entered the chat, you all. You have pissed her off. She is now engaged. She’s not someone who really engages a lot in politics. But that’s the kind of level of enthusiasm.
But if I were in the room, I would make sure that you are not just saying, okay, this is great and engaging and letting a thousand flowers bloom. But you’re engaging these people right now to be like, okay, great. We have your attention. What are you going to do? Start asking people to do things, get them bought in, get them bought in on a schedule.
Like, okay , week one, we’re doing this to register voters. Here’s what you need to know about registering voters in your state. This is happening on the convention. Here’s how you can participate in the convention. I know that the convention team is figuring out ways they can expand participation virtually to make it the biggest convention ever in terms of actual participation. And then, you know, what are you asking people to do when early voting starts, right?
These are early days and I’m sure there’ll be days that are really tough for the Harris campaign, this doesn’t really feel like a sugar high. This feels like momentum and deep, real engagement. But harness all of that now and, you know, make sure that those people stay with you.
Claire McCaskill: And grassroots fundraising. You know, the vice president talked about this.
(BEGIN AUDIO TAPE)
Kamala Harris: And we just had some breaking news. We just had the best 24 hours of grassroots fundraising in presidential campaign history.
(END AUDIO TAPE)
Claire McCaskill: It is amazing that 60 percent of the donors in the first 24 hours had never given before. And keep in mind, when we talk about online donations, we’re talking about typically the online donation average is around $27. So we’re talking about a whole lot of people. And black women have organized online. When they have 45,000 black women on a Zoom call —
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: — that’s really exciting.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah. All of that kind of organizing happened in organically, too. It’s amazing.
Claire McCaskill: And I think we need to take a moment and listen to some of President Biden’s speech last night, which it was terrific. And I know how hard it had to have been for him and his family and his staff, but he nailed it.
(BEGIN AUDIO TAPE)
Joe Biden: You know, in recent weeks, it’s become clear to me. I need to unite my party in this critical endeavor. I believe my record as president, my leadership in the world, my vision for America’s future all merited a second term. But nothing, nothing can come in the way of saving our democracy. That includes personal ambition. So I’ve decided the best way forward is to pass the torch to a new generation. It’s the best way to unite our nation.
(END AUDIO TAPE)
Jennifer Palmieri: And what’s amazing, you know, did you see the photos afterward that they released afterwards? He got through that speech in the Oval Office surrounded by his family. I’ve seen a lot of president, you know, Oval Office addresses, but like, wow. What an incredible family moment. And also, just to pause, I’m still wrapping my head around how Biden is going to emerge in the history books as such a major political figure of the late 20th century, early part of the 21st century, elected at age 29.
They called his campaign the Children’s Crusade in Delaware when he first ran for Senate because he was so young. And then, you know, goes on to become President of the United States and the oldest serving President of the United States, which means Joe Biden like eked every inch of his life out to do something important in public service. And, you know, it’s not just incredible that he was the vice president of the first black president and that he has passed the torch as president to who he hopes to be the first black woman president, but had an incredibly historic, productive presidency as well. So he’s just going to be someone who’s really appreciated and remembered.
Claire McCaskill: His legacy will be legend.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yes, legend. He’s such a legendary figure.
Claire McCaskill: Yep.
Jennifer Palmieri: People talk about LBJ and like the ability to work the Congress. And he has that plus all these other dimensions. So just really proud to be around when this all happened.
Claire McCaskill: Yep. So we’re going to talk about if I were in the room in terms of the Veep stakes, because we’re going to talk about Vance in the last segment of the episode today. But I think it’s important for us to make sure people know who really is being vetted, because it’s going to happen quickly. It’s going to happen by the 7th of August, and it’s going to be one of the following names. Andy Beshear, who’s the governor of Kentucky; Roy Cooper, who is the governor of North Carolina; Mark Kelly, who’s the U.S. Senator of Arizona; the Governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro. And none other than Minnesota Governor Tim Walz.
Jennifer Palmieri: We will pause here. But speaking of Tim Walz, one of the nominees being vetted to possibly become the running mate, he is going to join us, Minnesota Governor and head of the Democratic Governors Association, Tim Walz will join us for his take on a new Democratic ticket and how the convention rules are getting worked out. Back in a moment.
(ADVERTISEMENT)
Jennifer Palmieri: Welcome back. As we mentioned, the energy in the party right now is just remarkable. The vice president’s entrance into the 2024 contest has buoyed what was a lagging, pretty sleepy campaign. And no one knows this better than Minnesota Governor Tim Walz.
Claire McCaskill: And we are thrilled to have him join us.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yay!
Claire McCaskill: The home of the hot dish.
Tim Walz: The home of the hot dish. Hey, I won that contest three times.
Jennifer Palmieri: What?
Claire McCaskill: And by the way, you know what happened when you won that? Amy Klobuchar died a little bit inside.
Jennifer Palmieri: Claire.
Claire McCaskill: I mean, I’m just telling you.
Tim Walz: Both of us are going to have hell to pay, Claire, because as you know, she is —
Claire McCaskill: No, I got to tell you. She is my dear buddy. But no one is more competitive —
Jennifer Palmieri: Mine too.
Claire McCaskill: — than Amy Klobuchar. Nobody in the whole world.
Tim Walz: And I won it using Spam. It’s just beautiful.
Claire McCaskill: Oh, I love that.
Tim Walz: Yes.
Claire McCaskill: My family loves Spam. We do Spam grits.
Tim Walz: It tells you a lot about a family.
Claire McCaskill: There you go.
Tim Walz: That’s all I need to know.
Claire McCaskill: There you go.
Jennifer Palmieri: Maybe we could link to Governor Walz hot dish recipe on the link in the show notes.
Claire McCaskill: There we go.
Tim Walz: I’m telling it to you (ph).
Claire McCaskill: Yes, we would love that.
Tim Walz: It’s a hot dish recipe. Yup, we will.
Claire McCaskill: We will do that.
Tim Walz: There’s a cookbook out on congressional hot dish recipes. So you’ll be all fascinated. You know, our good friend Collin Peterson —
Claire McCaskill: By the way, just so everybody knows this. I mean, I love Governor Walz and I love my friend Amy Klobuchar and I love Minnesota. But that is just their way of saying casserole, just so you know. Hot dish is a casserole. So for those in Missouri, these are casserole recipes. All right.
Tim Walz: There you go.
Claire McCaskill: So Tim Walz is the Governor of Minnesota and Chair of the Democratic Governors Association and Co-chair of the Democratic National Convention Rules Committee. He has had a career that has enveloped public service from serving our country in the military to serving Minnesota students as a high school teacher and football coach. So you think he’s not ready for anything when you’ve been a high school football coach and a school teacher in high school, you are ready. So we welcome Governor Walz. Glad to have you.
Tim Walz: Thank you. I also supervised the lunchroom. That’s where I gained it.
Claire McCaskill: Oh my god.
Tim Walz: Well, that prepared me for Congress.
Claire McCaskill: I mean —
Jennifer Palmieri: I was ready to go. So, yeah.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah.
Jennifer Palmieri: Because everything is like high school, we say. It’s not fair to high school. We’re like, oh, everyone’s behaving like a high school, but really high school is just real life.
Tim Walz: Oh, yeah.
Jennifer Palmieri: We hope to evolve behind it, but beyond it, but yeah.
Tim Walz: You never close a yearbook. Never. That’s me, so.
Jennifer Palmieri: Oh, my goodness.
Tim Walz: Good to be with you.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah, thank you.
Claire McCaskill: So why don’t you talk first, Governor, about how this race, how the dynamics have shifted in the presidential from your perch on the rules committee, maybe make sure our listeners understand, because we try to explain things here —
Tim Walz: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: — that this is not a done deal, that it was perfectly wide open to anybody who wanted to try to run after President Biden released his delegates.
Tim Walz: Yeah. And I’ll take it first. You’re right. The dynamics of the race and look, Jen, you and Claire both know this was a challenging week emotionally and watching President Biden, who we adore, who we all know is effective and trying to show the dignity and the respect and not closure, but a transition. And I don’t know if we could have asked for anything better. His dignity, his grace, shifting it. The energy has blown off the roof. I think the only, in my analysis is, is this is mid Obama years, if you will, in terms of energy amongst the activists. And so that was all there. And this issue about the virtual vote, look, we did this and our rules are the same as they’ve been for decades. But COVID, we voted in COVID virtually because we all learned you could do some of these things.
The real rub came on this when the state of Ohio, like Republican legislators across the country, have started to mess with the voting rules. And Ohio’s law says we have got to have wet signatures signed of our nominee into the secretary of state’s office in Ohio by August 7th. Well, our convention starts August 19th. So that in itself was one.
And now there are people that said, well, you know, they said they would fix it. And to those people, I would say, if you’re trusting Republicans on the voting sanctity right now, that’s a bit risky. It gets worse and that Washington State is the 20th. So the process is open. What we did yesterday, and Claire, you’ll appreciate this. I got asked months ago to be the Chair of the Rules Committee. They said, oh, it’s just honorary pro-functional. You won’t do anything.
Jen Palmieri: Excuse me Governor. I hate to interrupt, but I think it would help if you explain, because I think we kind of just jumped into this and no one has any idea. You’re like chair of the rules, the DNC rules and bylaws committee.
Tim Walz: Yeah.
Jennifer Palmieri: I think, are you there because you’re chair of the DGA?
Tim Walz: No. No.
Jennifer Palmieri: No? Oh, no. You’re just a nice guy and someone said —
Tim Walz: Yes.
Jennifer Palmieri: — can you please take this? Okay.
Tim Walz: Yeah. Totally —
Jennifer Palmieri: But explain what they get assigned to do —
Tim Walz: Yeah.
Jennifer Palmieri: — because I think it’s not a body we’re familiar with.
Tim Walz: Well, it’s a good point. Yeah. And the chair of the DGA, this is really important. We have 23 Democratic governors. When you have a Democratic governor, you have reproductive access. When you have a Democratic governor, you have free school meals. When you have a Democratic governor, you’re dealing with climate change. My job is to be the chair of that, to elect Democratic governors in the 11 races this year, including Missouri. With Crystal and Mike, we got great candidates and we got Ashcroft down there that I want Claire to spend some dirt with me on this one, but that’s my job. Totally separate from that, the party apparatus has a convention coming up and somebody has to run the rules. Like, how are we going to vote? When are we going to vote? What do these things look like? And these are experts. These are people that love this stuff, but they need to have a chair. So Bishop Daughtry, who’s an expert at this, is a co-chair.
Claire McCaskill: Leah Daughtry, yeah.
Tim Walz: Yeah. She’s fabulous. Everybody loves her. But they asked me because it’s like an honorary thing coming from, you know, the White House. Well, little did I know now this thing became central because look, Claire’s right. Look, I didn’t know how this worked. And digging into this, there was a lot of misinformation that you’re not allowing people to vote on the floor. It’s the foundational thing that we do. Everybody who wants to get in should get in. And it felt like the system was closed. Now, what’s rich about this is Republicans talking about disenfranchising voters, you know, with pictures of January 6th behind them or whatever. It’s not that.
And so, Claire, here’s how this works. What we finished yesterday was opening this week will be the process. We have 4,699 delegates. You got to get the majority of those to get the nomination. These are pledged delegates who were for Joe Biden who are now open to go to whoever they want. If you can go get 300 delegates before, I believe, the 30th, you’re able to bring that to the floor and you’ll get a vote if you can get that. So it is open. It’s the same way it would be done in person, but it must be done before August 7th to ensure ballot access, certainly in Ohio. And then it falls in quick succession, August 20th, Washington State, 22nd, California, 23rd, Virginia.
So that’s what it was. It’s an open process. Anybody can get in. We’re going to vote virtually. And then we’re going to go to Chicago and do something that I think people worried about. We are going to celebrate and bring energy that blows the roof off things to celebrate Joe Biden, but to shift the torch to our nominee and presumptive nominee at this point in time is Kamala Harris.
Jennifer Palmieri: If somebody wants to run, they need to get 300 delegates.
Tim Walz: Correct.
Jennifer Palmieri: By the way, delegates, to remind people. The delegates were selected by you.
Tim Walz: Correct.
Jennifer Palmieri: Because if you vote in the Democratic primary, well, I vote in the state of Maryland. You vote for Joe Biden. You’re really voting for an actual person delegate —
Tim Walz: Correct.
Jennifer Palmieri: — like actual delegate who will represent you in Chicago. And so if you wanted to run, you need to get 300 of those delegates who were elected by Democrats. Again, I’m just like building up the legitimacy of this process.
Tim Walz: You’re doing great.
Jennifer Palmieri: It’s almost like I did communications for a living. And then if you get 300 of these delegates to sign a nomination form —
Tim Walz: Yes.
Jennifer Palmieri: — your name can be placed in nomination and you can compete for the Democratic nomination.
Tim Walz: That’s right.
Jennifer Palmieri: No one has done that to date. And the vice president has secured enough delegates are pledged to her now that we know she can be elected as the nominee on the first ballot that will happen virtually sometime between August 1st and 7th. You haven’t resolved what date yet, right?
Tim Walz: That’s right. It’ll be open during that time, finished by the 7th. You should be a teacher. And also Claire would appreciate this. Superdelegates can’t vote on the first vote. So none of the 700 superdelegates will have a say. So it’s pledged into that. I think the unity that came behind this, but it is open, there is the opportunity, but I agree. I don’t think anyone will. And I think the good news is, is because we have a candidate that was there on the ticket with Joe Biden that is a known quantity that people are excited about and then we can get to Chicago and do the rest of the work.
Claire McCaskill: I will just tell you as an aside, I know your pain about the Rules Committee. I remember after the election in 2008, I got a call, I think it was from Plouffe, somebody and said, Claire, we want you to serve in an honorary capacity on this committee for the DNC. And I said, oh, sure. And then a month later I got the call. Now here’s your job. We want to change the first primary away from Iowa.
Tim Walz: No way.
Claire McCaskill: And I’m like, oh, gee, thanks.
Tim Walz: All my neighbors in Iowa still wanted to know who that was.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah.
Tim Walz: Well, I’m going to go ahead and pass along your name, Claire.
Claire McCaskill: I was the sucker. Okay. So we got to get this done.
Tim Walz: Yes.
Claire McCaskill: You know, you were obviously being vetted for vice president, which is a tremendous honor in and of itself and we want to congratulate you on that honor because that is Joe Biden would say, is a BFD. So we don’t want to force you to talk about this, but we certainly want to give you the opportunity to address it if you would like.
Tim Walz: Thank you. And I’m not going to share the internal or the personal things conversation, but I will say this. Just even being mentioned in that is the most surreal thing in the world. And I remind people, you know, less than 20 years ago, I truly am supervising that public school classroom with no intention to run. But I think now, and I’m saying this, I’m biased. I’m biased towards democratic governors. That’s why that list is full of most incredible people.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah.
Tim Walz: And I will go back to it again. She cannot go wrong where she picks. And I say that because these are states that across the country that have protected reproductive freedoms, that have come up with real solutions on climate change, that are focusing on labor unions and middle class. It’s certainly, as I said, personally, it’s an honor, but it’s reassuring to me that Vice President Harris and the party, if you will, is seeing this ability to be able to compete across the board. And I think, again, the states and the people being mentioned make sense because we need to win them. But I just be candid with you. I think this map expanded.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah.
Tim Walz: And I look at it as the 11 races we have as for governors, we’re going to win North Carolina. We have incredible Attorney General down there, Josh Stein. But their candidate is full blown beyond anything I can imagine. He makes Donald Trump look somewhat sane, and that gets really weird. But there are states like Missouri, there are states like Indiana, there are states like Montana. So what I would say about it is, is I think they’re focused on the right things. I think they’re focused on winning. That’s my concern. They make sure that when they get through this process, whoever that is, needs to be there to make sure that we win in November.
Claire McCaskill: Where’s your best chances for pickups in terms of Democratic governors? I don’t want you to diminish any of the states, but why don’t you lift up for our listeners? Because we want everybody to help. I mean, governors are really important. I know. I ran for governor and then I ran for Senate two years later.
Tim Walz: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: And it’s a different exercise in terms of how there’s a national base for when you run for senator, not so much when you run for governor.
Tim Walz: That’s right.
Claire McCaskill: And people across the country need to realize they need to help out these Democratic governors races. Where would you highlight for our listeners to maybe send 10 or 20 bucks if they felt like it?
Tim Walz: My heart is melting for Claire. I need to take you on the road for this because that assessment is exactly right. People who don’t know, say it’s a statewide race or whatever, it’s very different. Governors races are very localized and they don’t gain that. It’s very hard to gain resources. That’s why the DGA is so important. We are a key player in this. This is like the DSCC or the DCCC, but we do it for governors. Look, we have no incumbents. This organization has won 27 out of 28 of the last races, but we’re going to win in North Carolina, hold that seat that Roy Cooper’s in. We’re going to win and beat Kelly Ayotte, a former colleague of yours, Claire, up in New Hampshire. We’re going to, of course, hold Delaware. I believe we can play in much broader places. We have incredible candidates. Like I said, we’ve got Indiana, we’ve got Missouri. And I will just mention this in Montana that people need to —
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah, I know that guy well. Yeah.
Tim Walz: Sixteen out of the last 19 years, it’s been a Democratic governor.
Jennifer Palmieri: I know.
Tim Walz: Democrats give up so easy. Oh, Montana’s stalled to red. John Tester is going to win, Claire. Don’t bet against that guy. He is going to win. And I think our governor candidate. So we’ve got some safe seats.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah. Ryan Bussey is the governor candidate there, he’s good. Yeah. Montana, it’s still a purple state. People don’t believe that it is.
Tim Walz: It is. And they care about public lands.
Claire McCaskill: They really do.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah. It’s a big deal. We’re going to take a quick break, but stick with us because I think that Governor Walz has one of the best critiques I have heard yet of why the Trump advance ticket is not right for America. So stick around. We will be back in just a moment.
(ADVERTISEMENT)
Claire McCaskill: Governor, we’ve talked about your role as chairman of the Rules Committee for the DNC, and we’ll look forward to seeing you in Chicago. And we’ve talked about your role as Chairman of the Democratic Governors Association and those important races. Let’s turn now to the mess that is known as the Republican ticket for president. That is Donald Trump and J.D. Vance. Why don’t you give us your take on the strength or weakness of that particular ticket?
Tim Walz: Oh, wow. The thing is, is that I come at this, I keep saying this, Claire, and you get it from Missouri. And, Jen, I grew up in a small town of 400 people. I said I had 24 kids in my class, 12 were cousins graduating. That’s small town America. And I said the thing that most irritates me and it baffles me and I think we can take this message back is a failed real estate guy from New York City that knows nothing about small towns and a guy who wrote a book that denigrates my neighbors and tells them that this is some type of cultural thing. I think the real message here is, is the reason that rural America is struggling more, and we’ve seen it whether it’s outsourcing of jobs, is because of Republican policies and people like Donald Trump and J.D. Vance, a venture capitalist who cares nothing about those institutions there.
If you’re in a town of 400, there are two institutions that are the most important to your town. That is the public school and a hospital or a clinic, if you have it. Both of those things are being gutted by the Republicans. They’ve been telling us for six and a half years they have a plan on healthcare, and that means taking away Medicare and Medicaid and reducing the ACA access. And they talk about privatizing public schools. And I think the simplest thing on this is, where do you think you’re gonna find a public school in a town of 400? Where do you think that’s gonna work? The great genius of this country was everybody gets an opportunity.
Every community thrives. I had the best government teacher in a guy named Ed Pebble in a town of 400 with a small class, and now I’m the Governor of Minnesota. That’s the American story. Oh, we’re gonna privatize this and take the money out of our public schools. Let me be very clear. When you talk about private education, that means you gut the public schools, you send it to people already sending their kids to those schools, and you got it. So I think the condemnation of these people are they don’t know middle America. They don’t know who we are. Their policies do nothing to help them, and yet we know?
You know, Claire, I represented a district that Trump won by 18 points, but that got tougher and tougher. You and I both saw this, that there was a transition in real time in front of us. I think we need to take this populist message, the economy, the freedoms. These guys aren’t for freedoms. Their idea of freedom is to be in your exam room, your bedroom. You know, banning books, we’re banning hunger. These are democratic policies. And I think the people in Missouri, I would argue, the people in Montana, doing those types of things make a big difference. What is Donald Trump offering? You go to these rallies, he’s talking about Hannibal Lecter.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah.
Tim Walz: He’s trying to think up names. It’s stunning to me. At some point in time, I am convinced of this. At some point in time, this crumbles like the house of cards it is because there is no plan. There is no policy. And now they’re flirting with, you know, totalitarianism, Orban down in Mar-a-Lago, you know, no problem with Putin, none whatsoever. Those are the types of things that I think are all coming to a head. So look, this is a bad ticket on the other side. It is anti-union. It is anti-public school. It has no solutions on healthcare or climate change. And these are things that are in everybody’s life every day. So I’m very hopeful that the Harris ticket will bring that message.
Claire McCaskill: You know, I think the freedom message, Jen and I have talked about this before, you know, we do a segment on this podcast often about if we were in the room, what we would be talking to campaigns about in terms of their ability to win in November. And I think the freedom message is so important.
Tim Walz: Yes.
Claire McCaskill: And, you know, that’s where people like J.D. Vance are so hypocritical. If you look at some of the votes he’s taken recently —
Tim Walz: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: — and this is not some interview he did, you know, when he was in college. These are votes as a U.S. senator where he was one of only 28 senators to vote against a bill that would have restricted law enforcement from getting women’s medical records —
Tim Walz: Yes.
Claire McCaskill: — which is just bonkers in terms of being anti-freedom. Big government is watching you. Big government is tracking you. I mean, in my state, they actually caught a person in the Republican administration trying to track women’s periods.
Tim Walz: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: I mean, it is really, really scary shit.
Tim Walz: It’s terrifying. Well, you’re in the right spot, Claire. I saw the new ad just this morning that came out from the vice president, and it’s freedom, freedom. And you’re exactly right.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah.
Tim Walz: And I think their idea of freedom is very, very different. Very different.
Claire McCaskill: Very, very, very different. Jen, what else do we need to cover with the governor about this race?
Jennifer Palmieri: So, Minnesota, you know, prior to the sort of last round of polling, it was sort of reported that I guess that one of the reasons why President Biden in the end did decide to not run is that he saw polling from the campaign that showed even states like Minnesota, you know, people say, Minnesota is no blue state. I know. I know it is not easy to win in Minnesota. I know it’s not easy for Democrats to win there. It’s a very diverse state.
Tim Walz: That’s right.
Jennifer Palmieri: A lot of rural areas as well. You know, there’s big cities, but a lot of rural areas, the Iron Range, the whole thing.
Tim Walz: Yeah.
Jennifer Palmieri: Like, I know it’s tough. But what were you seeing in Minnesota prior to the president dropping out and how do you think that this Harris nomination sort of upends the Trump and Vance playbook?
Tim Walz: Yeah. Well, it was real. It is close. We don’t take anything for granted. I will, though, tout our record. We have the longest streak of voting for Democrats going back to ‘72.
Jennifer Palmieri: Wow. I didn’t realize that.
Tim Walz: Oh, yes. And every other state got it wrong in ‘84, except us with Walter Mondale, as you well know. But look, it was going to be close. It was there. But here’s the thing. Minnesotans vote in highest numbers, or either one or two. So, the universe is pretty predictable. Donald Trump’s floor and ceiling is the exact same thing. He’s going nowhere. He’s got his folks that they’re there. The issue we had was enthusiasm around the Democratic base. That is now gone. And so Donald Trump, you know, said he won in 2020. He lied. He said he was going to win in 16. ‘He didn’t. And so in hockey parlance, he’s going for the hat trick of getting his butt handed to him again this year. We will win. And I think the thing to keep important is all the money Donald Trump raises goes to Donald Trump.
All that money goes to his funds, whatever he does. They do not have the infrastructure. They talk about it. Now, he’s coming out here. I tweaked him online, and apparently he was watching Fox News. So he’s now scheduled a rally out here. Here’s my thing. Come spend your money in Minnesota. Come pay your damn bill, though, if you’re going to hold a rally. That’s what I would say. Pay your bills, but spend your money here, because while you’re spending your money here, we’re building up in North Carolina. We’re building up in Wisconsin. We’re building up in Pennsylvania. So we’re going to win this thing. It’ll be close. We’ll take it to them, though.
Jennifer Palmieri: Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota, thank you so much. It’s delightful to meet you. You’re as fun as everyone promised. Yeah, we really appreciate your time.
Claire McCaskill: And, you know, let me just say about Tim Walz. I don’t know who’s going to be selected as vice president, but, you know, give me a plain talking former public school teacher any day of the week from the heart of this country. It is not flyover country. It is the beating heart of America. So go, Tim.
Tim Walz: Thanks, Claire. Thanks, Jen.
Claire McCaskill: All right.
Tim Walz: Good to talk to you.
Jennifer Palmieri: Thank you.
Claire McCaskill: See you in Chicago.
Tim Walz: Yep. See you.
Claire McCaskill: Okay. So we are now going to talk about the real DEI candidate in this race, who is J.D. Vance. You know that DEI is used by Republicans as shorthand. Well, it really means he’s not a white guy. DEI to them means anybody other than a white male, which is so bad. It undermines Harris to do this, and it tries to diminish her amazing qualifications. And the resume she has built through her effort, through hard work. I mean, you don’t win Democratic primaries in California without being tough as nails. And she has won a number of them against the odds, not only for D.A. of San Francisco, but Attorney General of California and United States senator. I mean, that was a really tough primary for her.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: And she prevailed because she’s really good at public service. So let’s talk about how J.D. Vance.
Jennifer Palmieri: Claire is going to tee off on J.D. Vance, which is excellent. But I’ll just add in here because, you know, again, like worked with a lot of people who’ve done research and polling and focus groups about the, you know, what’s really going on here and the best way to handle if you’re trying to be helpful. So, as Claire laid out, what’s really happening here is that Vice President Harris is far more accomplished, qualified and prepared to be president of the United States than either Donald Trump or J.D. Vance, okay. And also she’s electric on the trail and they are trying to do whatever they can to undermine that. And they know that in people’s minds, even though it’s 2024, we still have a lot of questions about women. People have different questions about female candidates and they do male candidates. And we have to be constantly reminded of women’s qualifications.
So, you know, it may be true, but not necessarily helpful to be like this. These attacks on the vice president are racist and they’re sexist. It’s kind of diminishing of her. It’s kind of what they hope we do. It triggers all sorts of things in our brains. What is helpful to say is, you know what? The vice president is one of the most qualified and prepared people to ever seek the office. She was a prosecutor. She was attorney general, the largest state of the nation. She was elected senator of the largest state of the nation. She was elected vice president. And she’s been doing this job. She’s prepared to take it on. These attacks are not going to stop her. She’s been hearing this kind of thing her whole life. But you know what? Our daughters do hear it. Our nieces hear it. Young women hear it. And it’s harmful for them.
And so that’s what I’m concerned about here. People don’t need to worry about Kamala Harris. She is going to be fine. But this may turn off black voters. This may turn off women. And by the way, it’s really destructive for these guys to be sending that kind of messages to our daughters. That is a great way for people to respond if you want to push back on this and do it in a way that, you know, frankly, inflicts as much damage as possible for the jackasses that are saying it. All right, Claire, go on J.D.
Claire McCaskill: All right. So here’s the deal with J.D. The reason Republicans complain about DEI is they claim that that gives people positions that they did not earn, that they did not get on merit, that they got by a certain classification, either gender or ethnicity. That’s exactly what he did. And he admitted it in his book. And I’m quoting him, “The financial aid package Yale offered exceeded my wildest dreams. In my first year, it was nearly a full ride. And it wasn’t because of anything I’d done or earned. It was because I was one of the poorest kids in school.”
So he got special treatment because of a status, not because he earned it. That’s how he got what he got. Okay, then fast forward. He gets out of Yale, writes a book that was notable, and I will give him that. But he’d written a book. And what does Peter Thiel do, this billionaire tech guy? He starts getting him hired in financial firms when he has no experience whatsoever doing anything in the financial sector. And they even admitted these financial firms said, I hired him because Peter Thiel told me to.
Once again, he didn’t earn it. Peter Thiel gave it to him. And then fast forward to his Senate campaign. He wasn’t raising any money. And what did Peter Thiel do? Gave him $10 million so that he could win the primary for U.S. Senate in Ohio. Not only did he have 10 million, he then gave another 5 million. I mean, I ran for the U.S. Senate. I can’t imagine what it would be like to get a $15 million contribution. You know how hard you have to work to raise that money if you’re used to doing things on merit? This guy, Peter Thiel, has been carrying him piggyback style from the moment they had a bromance back when Peter Thiel attended a speech he gave. And it has been all Peter Thiel since then, not merit.
So he is the DEI candidate. He is a guy who is where he is not based on what he’s earned. He’s been a U.S. senator for 10 minutes. He has no experience in doing this. He doesn’t know government. He wants to take away your freedoms. And he is a really bad dude. And he’s way out there. He’s way out there extreme. So here you go.
Jennifer Palmieri: And like, also just to remind people of Trump’s lack of, I mean, Trump has served in one government position. He has won one campaign and he got impeached twice in the four years he had that because he was doing a bad job, okay. And J.D. Vance has won one race. He served as senator for 10 minutes, you know, versus Harris, who had almost 14 years as prosecutor and attorney general and then elected to the United States Senate and then four years as vice president.
Claire McCaskill: She’s ready.
Jennifer Palmieri: We don’t know her nominee is, her running mate is, but we know enough of the choices like that person is also going to be infinitely more qualified and prepared for this job than either J.D. or Donald Trump.
Claire McCaskill: And by the way, the Republicans are now worried about J.D. Vance. Okay.
Jennifer Palmieri: Okay.
Claire McCaskill: This was a delight, right?
Jennifer Palmieri: All right.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah. Man, we are cooking with grease now, as my friend Donna Brazile would say.
Thanks so much for listening. If you have a question for us, send it to howtowinquestions@nbcuni.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 646-974-4194.
Claire McCaskill: This show is produced by Vicki Vergolina. Janmaris Perez is our associate producer. Catherine Anderson and Bob Mallory are audio engineers. Our head of audio production is Bryson Barnes. Aisha Turner is the executive producer for MSNBC Audio. And Rebecca Kutler is the senior vice president for content strategy at MSNBC.
Jennifer Palmieri: Search for “How To Win 2024” wherever you get your podcasts and follow the series.