Is retribution a winning campaign issue? That’s the question Senator Claire McCaskill and former White House Communications Director Jennifer Palmieri want to answer this week. And the striking contrast of the two presidential candidates comes into sharper focus: while one meets with G7 world leaders after honoring the fallen heroes of D Day, the other tells his supporters he doesn’t care about them, he just needs their vote. Then: what is more of a kitchen table issue to voters than stubbornly high food prices? Montana Senator Jon Tester sits down with Claire and Jen to lay bare the effects of corporate consolidation on food production and what it means for your next grocery run.
Note: this is a rough transcript. Please excuse any typos.
Jennifer Palmieri: Hello, welcome to “How to Win 2024.” It’s Thursday, June 13th. I’m Jennifer Palmieri, and I’m here with my co-host Claire McCaskill. Hello, Claire.
Claire McCaskill: Hey, so doing this podcast is good luck because while we were recording this podcast, the Supreme Court ruled on mifepristone. It was a nine to zero decision that the plaintiffs in that lawsuit never had standing. And by the way, this was an issue that legal experts were talking about at the time that it was pretty obvious these guys didn’t have standing and why this ridiculous judge brought the case in that circuit just because of that judge.
The fact that he didn’t go to law school and learn about standing was a head scratcher at the time. Nine-zero, they didn’t have standing cases over. Josh Hawley’s wife, big loss, because she’s the one who argued this in front of the Supreme Court.
Jennifer Palmieri: Oh, I forgot. Oh my gosh, right.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah, that was her.
Jennifer Palmieri: Wow.
Claire McCaskill: That was her. So, anyway, good news on that. And the dust is settling on Trump’s verdict. And the important question that is now surfacing is, is grievance on the part of Trump more important to voters —
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: — than things like abortion rights and record number of jobs and being able to have a democracy in this country. We want to focus on this idea of retribution as a campaign platform and underscore some of the big contrasts we’ve seen over the last week.
Jennifer Palmieri: And we’re excited to tackle one of the most important issues, frustrating voters in every corner of the country, foodflation. Montana farmer and Senator Jon Tester will be stopping by to check in about the corporate consolidation of food production, what that means for your next grocery run and how that’s impacting prices.
Claire McCaskill: But you know what we got to do first?
Jennifer Palmieri: I do.
Claire McCaskill: We got to get in the room and strategize. So, first up is retribution, is personal grievance, is getting the bastards, is that a winning campaign issue? Is that something that is more important to America than any other issue? Because that appears to be his entire campaign at this point. Look at the headlines.
Jennifer Palmieri: Right.
Claire McCaskill: Trump is focused on revenge, NBC.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: Sometimes revenge can be justified, “New York Times.” Trump’s conviction intensifies his calls for retribution, ABC. Critics saying I’d seek retribution are wrong, but I would have every right to go after my opponents, on Fox. Trump says he’s had every right to seek prosecution of his political foes.
Jennifer Palmieri: I mean.
Claire McCaskill: What’s up?
Jennifer Palmieri: Any other time, it would be just unthinkable that a politician could survive in this way. But what he has done prior to this moment, and he’s not doing a great job right now, he being Trump, I am your retribution, right? That was what he said when he announced his campaign for the third time. And it’s one thing to tell people, I mean, grievance is a huge thing in American politics, you know, we all get that.
People for whose lives did not turn out the way that they expected, you know, work hard, but like have not gotten ahead. There can be an element of the retribution that is appealing, but not when it’s all about himself as it is now. And the other thing that I think is happening that is smart for the campaign and Democrats to do is to tie his screaming about retribution to the very real and very alarming Project 2025 agenda that he wants to implement and tying Republicans to that. Trump is going up to the Hill tomorrow.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah.
Jennifer Palmieri: And the Biden campaign smartly, like, re-issued an ad they did on Jan. 6 to remind you, look, he is going back to the Capitol that had the insurrection that he was responsible for. And, you know, IVF, there was a woman who was a Trump supporter and some kind of Trump policy advisor on health care on the Christian Broadcasting Network talking about how dangerous IVF is and how it’s empowering people in a way that it shouldn’t. Just like that leads to more abortion rights, you know.
For us to understand that this is all part of an attempted authoritarian takeover that would impact not just Trump going after people he wants to exact his revenge on, because what he says, sometimes revenge can be justified, is a mean, alarming, authoritarian, rights-draining agenda that the Republicans that are running for Congress or in Congress now would back as well.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah. And he was on the Hill this morning and Trump said the following to House Republicans.
Jennifer Palmieri: Oh, it was this morning? Oh, I thought it was tomorrow. Okay, yeah, great.
Claire McCaskill: Well, this is Jake Sherman. Jake Sherman just posted that Trump to House Republicans, quote, “Milwaukee, where we are having our convention, is a horrible city.”
Jennifer Palmieri: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. What?
Claire McCaskill: Right.
Jennifer Palmieri: Right. It’s just all dark and desperate. Everything’s horrible.
Claire McCaskill: Claire McCaskill: Everything sucks. America is horrible. The city where I’m going. Okay, so contrast.
Jennifer Palmieri: Contrast with?
Claire McCaskill: This is a big contrast is this campaign. David Sedaris, I posted this this morning after I saw it. David Sedaris did this analogy. The flight attendant is coming down the aisle with a cart of food and she asked you, would you like chicken or would you like chopped up shit with pieces of broken glass in it? And the undecided voter waits a minute and goes, well, how’s the chicken cooked? You know, that is this election. That is the contrast we have. Let’s listen to some of the audio. Let’s listen to Biden from Normandy.
(BEGIN AUDIO)
Joe Biden: Democracy is never guaranteed. Every generation must preserve it, defend it and fight for it. That’s the test of the ages. In memory of those who fought here, died here, literally saved the world here. Let us be worthy of their sacrifice. Let us be the generation that when history is written about our time in 10, 20, 30, 58 years from now, it’ll be said when the moment came, we met the moment, we stood strong. Our alliances were made stronger. We saved democracy in our time as well.
(END AUDIO)
Claire McCaskill: Okay, now let’s listen to Trump at his shark speech in Las Vegas.
(BEGIN AUDIO)
Donald Trump: By the way, isn’t that breeze nice? Do you feel the breeze? Because I don’t want anybody going on me. We need every voter. I don’t care about you. I just want your vote. I don’t care. See, the press will take that and they’ll say he said a horrible thing.
(END AUDIO)
Claire McCaskill: And as Milbank said in “The Washington Post,” you know, Trump is serving a higher cause in his book, and that’s himself, whereas Joe Biden is really working hard to serve our country and the things we believe in and the world.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah, and I think this is why I think the Europe trip is so important, because normally if you’re in a tight reelection campaign, you loathe any time you spend outside of the country and not in a battleground state. But in this case, I feel like the trip to D-Day was so worthwhile. And right now the president is in Italy at the G7.
And what I felt like D-Day did was really, you know, again, I understand it’s for people who pay attention to the news, but for moderate Republicans, kind of Haley voters, independents to remember how difficult the D-Day operation was, how precarious, what a precarious moment it was for democracy.
Imagine what it would have been like if someone like Donald Trump and not FDR, and this time Joe Biden, was president at that moment. Having Zelenskyy there to understand that another European authoritarian leader is trying to take over parts of Europe again. And I think when you sort of add all of this up, the craziness from Vegas, the talk of retribution, the Project 2025, the Southern Baptists not supporting IVF and saying that’s immoral, Supreme Court justices being recorded talking about how this needs to be a nation of godliness.
And all of a sudden, there’s issues that are not as tangible as the economy, although that also matters. And we also had good news about that this week with inflation. That it is really amassing into an overarching thematic argument that certainly for those independent voters should be persuasive. And I feel like the time overseas is not missed on the campaign, it’s time well spent.
Claire McCaskill: And let’s talk about another contrast this week. Not only did we have the contrast of crazy town in Las Vegas with the sharks and the electric boats —
Jennifer Palmieri: My God, yeah.
Claire McCaskill: — versus celebrating heroes. And by the way, the Biden campaign made a really effective ad using Trump’s own words about how he considers those who died in combat losers and suckers. It’s a really effective ad. I hope they’re using it in all the swing states.
Let’s talk about the contrast of Hunter Biden being convicted and the dramatic contrast between none of those jurors went home afraid for their lives. None of those court personnel felt like they were under fire in a public and unacceptable way. How the Biden family handled that prosecution versus how Trump handled his prosecution, both with the same outcomes, is really a stark contrast. And I do believe that it’s going to hurt Donald Trump.
It was a victory for our rule of law and the premise that no one is above the law. But it also, I think, was a victory for Joe Biden, because you could see what a loving, normal family does and one who, a president who could. He had the power, Jen, he had the power to stop that prosecution.
He has the power to pardon his son. Does anybody believe for a minute that Donald Trump would have allowed that to go forward if it was his son? Of course they wouldn’t. So, you know, this is the difference between somebody who respects the Constitution and checks and balances and one who thinks the world revolves around him.
Jennifer Palmieri: And I mean, it’s just like it was so heartbreaking. It is accepting the rule of law. It’s tragic for the Biden family, but the timing just has such a stark contrast to see just two weeks ago, Trump saying, you know, refusing to accept the rule of law again with the outcome of his own trial. And then the president saying that he would not pardon his son, he would not get involved.
And then the first lady flying back and forth to Europe in order to be there in the courtroom with Hunter. And then the president coming and making sure that all the cameras saw him hugging his son on the tarmac because he wanted us to see that there’s no shame, that they love their son and they’re very proud of their son and they’re never going to try to hide him.
And, you know, so I think that this could end up being an important week, sort of a clarifying week for the big notion of Biden as a decent man, the threat that democracy is under and how high those stakes really are, not just at home, but also abroad, came through in a big win.
Claire McCaskill: So before we go to our friend, Jon Tester, I do think it’s worth mentioning the intensive negotiations that are ongoing in the Middle East. I think Biden’s move as a strong world leader to put the deal out publicly that Israel had proposed was a really smart move, maybe one of the smartest things that has come out of the White House in the last 60 days, because it really put Netanyahu on his heels.
He knew this was an Israeli proposal. He knew this is something that the Israeli government had proposed, and Biden was just making it public. So now he had him boxed. Now he had to get Hamas. And Blinken has been working overtime, talking to all the negotiators, talking to all the major players in the Middle East to try to get this deal done. I don’t know if they’ll be successful, but the act of doing it matters.
The act of the world seeing the United States trying to bring these sides together and stop the violence —
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: — is priceless in terms of how Biden is viewed on the world stage, but most importantly, here in the United States of America. And if they get this done, it’s a BFD.
Jennifer Palmieri: And it is, you know, they break with tradition a lot in conducting foreign policy, you know, but, you know, they’re nimble and I thought it was really smart and important to him. Let’s take a quick break. When we’re back, Montana Senator Jon Tester joins us to dig into some real kitchen table issues like food prices. Back with him in a moment.
(ADVERTISEMENT)
Jennifer Palmieri: Welcome back. Despite headlines this week showing that inflation eased again in May, yay, it doesn’t feel real to most Americans. Even though we’ve had some overall relief from COVID-era cost spikes, food prices have not budged. Households really feel this when checking out of the grocery store. And right now they’re frustrated.
Claire McCaskill: So Jen and I want to talk to my pal, Montana Senator Jon Tester, about what’s causing these stubbornly high food prices, what’s often called foodflation. He’s a third generation Montana farmer, grandfather, a big musician. He can actually play the trumpet really well, taught music, was a school teacher. But here’s the deal. This is somebody who actually farms. He is actually from Montana. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve called him and he’s on the fricking combine.
Jennifer Palmieri: I’ve been on the combine, Claire.
Jon Tester: That’s right.
Claire McCaskill: I will also confess there are times I call his wife and she’s on the combine.
Jon Tester: That’s right.
Claire McCaskill: So it is a family affair for the Tester family in Montana. And he really knows what’s going on with agribusiness right now and what’s happening to farmers and what’s happening to America in terms of food prices. So, Jon, we are really lucky that you took a little bit of time out of what is an incredibly stressful and busy schedule right now. So, let’s talk about inflation. Give us your view about what could be done to fix what’s going on right now.
Jon Tester: So first of all, it’s good to see you, Claire, and it’s good to see you, Jennifer. And, you know, between the two of you, only one of you have been to my farm and it’s been Jennifer, you know, just so you know.
Jennifer Palmieri: I mean, this is like, go ahead. Go ahead. Tell the story. It was one of my most humiliating moments of my entire career.
Jon Tester: Yeah. So I told them not to use Google Maps. I said which road to go. Unfortunately, my staff did not transfer that information. And it was winter. It was like February, right?
Jennifer Palmieri: It was February. I came out with “The Circus” with two hands.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah, that’s right. And they drive down a road that you don’t drive down in wintertime. And of course, they got stuck. And I had to go down with my tractor and pull them out. And they might have heard a little harassment during it.
Jennifer Palmieri: It was, I mean, Claire, we took like three hours out of his day. The car was far away in a snowbank. I’m mortified.
Claire McCaskill: Let’s just be clear about this. This was not somebody who worked for Jon Tester who did this.
Jennifer Palmieri: No. No.
Claire McCaskill: This is not somebody who works his farm and he pretends like he’s farming. This is Jon Tester —
Jennifer Palmieri: This is Jon Tester.
Claire McCaskill: — on the freaking tractor —
Jon Tester: Right.
Claire McCaskill: — pulling the van out of the snow.
Jennifer Palmieri: It remains “The Circus’” like number one favorite scene of the eight years that the show was on. It’s Jon Tester pulling our car out of the snow.
Jon Tester: Yeah, it was tough. But at any rate, they made it. And then they lived to tell the story and things are good.
Jennifer Palmieri: And it was some great television. It was some great television.
Jon Tester: Yeah, it did. Yeah, it was really good. You talked about inflation and particularly in food, and it’s a real challenge out there. So for the people who don’t know who I am, I’m a third generation farmer. My wife, Charlotte, and I farmed the land that my grandmother and grandfather homesteaded and my folks took it over in the ‘40s. We are entering our 47th year on the farm. Took it over in 1978.
So I spent my life there. I mean, I literally spent my life within a hundred miles of where I was born. And I’ve watched rural America from my perch 12 miles west of Big Sandy, Montana. And I’ve watched fewer and fewer farms and I’ve watched more consolidation. I’ve just watched both on the input side and on the market side, not a lot of choices for farmers.
You know, there used to be three grain elevators in Montana, used to be more than that. But when I was growing up, there was three. Now there’s zero. You know, there was 165 kids in high school. Now there’s a little over 50. All that has to do with that consolidation. So what I’m going to say about the consumers also applies to the farmers. If you have competition in the marketplace, you tend to get a more realistic price.
Capitalism works, but you’ve got to have competition. And when the family goes to the grocery store and they go to the meat counter and they want to buy a package of burger, four companies control over 80% of the meat that’s processed in this country right now. That’s not competition. That’s concentration in the industry.
And so Congress needs to do something about that. And I think that has driven inflation as much as anything. And quite honestly, you can say the same thing about many of the other sectors that are out there. We tend to think that bigger is better. I don’t. I think that the more choices, it’s the better.
And so we need to get more folks into the marketplace and we need to enforce the Packers and Stockyards Act so that the big guys aren’t undercutting the little guys and putting them out of business because they can and taking those markets for themselves. And it’s not about putting the big guys out of business for me. It’s about making sure we have more competition to hold the big guys honest.
And that’s where I’m at. And I think that would help consumers in the grocery stores. I think it would help people in rural America so you wouldn’t see this mass excesses continues in rural America and people going off the farms. It truly breaks my heart. And that’s a bad thing for the country because it impacts not only rural America, but it impacts food security. It impact prices we pay in the grocery store. It impacts everything.
So that’s what I think needs to happen. And by the way, not to toot my own horn, we’ve got a number of bills, bipartisan in nature that really helps move the ball forward and fix some of these problems. But, you know, in a Congress, it’s badly broken, has been badly broken for a long time, as Claire knows, it’s hard to get some of this stuff done.
Claire McCaskill: So let’s talk about this idea that a company can control an animal from birth to the table.
Jon Tester: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: I know in my state, we used to have thousands and thousands of feeder pig operations. They are, by and large, 80 to 90 percent of them are gone. And we have one company primarily, but maybe two that have possession of these animals all the way to the table and can tell the rancher when he has to bring his beef to market. They don’t even get to choose when they take their beef to market to get the best price.
Jon Tester: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: Talk about that and how dangerous that vertical line is, because not only is there not competition among various companies, there is nothing in the process that can interrupt that complete and total control that means they can dictate the price they get.
Jon Tester: Yeah. And I think anybody involved in agriculture sees these trends and understands it. I mean, we saw with chickens, we’re seeing it with pork. We’re starting to see it in beef. We’ll see it in everything, quite frankly, if they can get away with it. And what this does is takes all the independence away from the people that are in production agriculture. They become the person who provides the work, pays the bills and pays the taxes.
They dictate to them because they dictate what kind of pig they’re going to feed out. They dictate what kind of feed they’re going to feed the pig, and they dictate when they’re going to haul it to market.
Claire McCaskill: In fact, the farmer works for this huge agribusiness —
Jon Tester: Yeah, correct.
Claire McCaskill: — international companies, sometimes owned by foreign companies, right?
Jon Tester: Absolutely. And they work for them, but they get none of the benefits you’d do if you were working for a corporation, let’s say to speak, in an hourly job. And quite honestly, this is bad because number one, they can grind you right down to the bare minimum to keep you barely alive economically. And then they dictate the prices at the grocery store.
And it doesn’t matter if they’ve got a hundred bucks invested in this pig and sell it for 200 or a hundred bucks invested in this pig and sell it for 300 or 50 bucks invested in this pig and sell it for 300. They can make the determination. And it’s the same thing with other things too. And that’s why the vertical integration in most industries, you know, if I’m a farmer, I like to control my own seed. I like to control my inputs. I like to control my marketplace, but this is a different kind of vertical integration where they control everything.
And the farmer is really a serf. You know, we’re here and we’re going to tell you everything you do. We don’t want you to think. You just do what we tell you to do and you’re going to do it. And by the way, we’re going to pay a peanuts for it. And it’s not a good direction for production ag to be in. And I don’t think it’s a good place for food security standpoint, because I’m going to tell you the way I’m wired, there’s no way I could do that. I’ll go dig ditches with a shovel before I put myself through that kind of garbage.
Claire McCaskill: What can happen here? I mean, I don’t get why this corporate greed —
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: — and this corporate —
Jon Tester: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: –control, is it DOJ and antitrust?
Jon Tester: Yup.
Claire McCaskill: Are they just really good at lobbying? Can’t we get something in the ag bill this time that actually addresses this vertical integration in a way that you would think all these Republicans that are from very red places, kind of like your state, you would think they would be on this bandwagon. Why aren’t they banging the table about this?
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah, I don’t get why the bandwagon’s not bigger at this point.
Jon Tester: Well, because number one, the big multinational ag corporations do a great job of influencing people in production ag, thinking that this is just the best thing since sliced bread. I think there are laws on the books. I’m not an attorney. You know that Claire, but I think there are laws on the books that just need to be enforced.
I don’t think it’s a high priority for the Department of Justice. I don’t think it has anything to do with lobbying. I just don’t think it’s a high priority. And the USDA does not have the tools to be able to do that they should have. And if they pass my special investigator bill, they would have a special investigator with subpoena powers that could enforce the Packers and Stockyards Act. And so they would have those tools.
I think it’s all in the DOJ right now. They got a lot of stuff going on. And I don’t think this is high on their priority list and it should be because food security is national security, and it’s really important.
Claire McCaskill: This is where you’re yelling at the president. This is where you are showing that this is about not party —
Jon Tester: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: — but this is about the failure of a Democratic president to put somebody in the Department of Justice that makes this a priority.
Jon Tester: It is, but Congress needs to act, too. I mean, when I went up to Chuck Grassley and I said, Chuck, I got a bill for a special investigator for the Department of Ag, Chuck’s first words out of his mouth were, they don’t have one already? And I said, no, they don’t. And he said, well, I’ll co-sponsor the bill with you.
Anybody that’s involved in agriculture understands that this is really important stuff and need to do it. But you’re right. I think the administration could have done more. They could have made it a higher priority. They did not. But I will also tell you that there are some in agriculture that are very, very concerned about this. But for the most part, there isn’t a lot of concern in agriculture.
You know, it was a few decades ago, I think it was under probably Reagan, or it might even have been before that, that they had a Secretary of Ag that said, get big or get out. And I’m a big supporter of our college and university. We’ve had land-grant universities just talk about, you got to be big or you can’t be in agriculture. That’s total BS. And I’m being generous when I say BS.
Claire McCaskill: By the way, you can say bullshit on this podcast.
Jon Tester: I can?
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah. Yeah, you can do it here, yeah.
Jon Tester: Well, in that case, it’s 100% bullshit. Because the truth is, is that every operation is different and you can add value to your product and be a small producer and make a good living and raise a family and enjoy everything rural America has to offer and all the challenges that rural America has to do.
But the truth is, is you’ve got to have the university systems, the land grants, all those folks supporting that effort. We pulled all the funding, public funding out of those land-grant universities. They’re looking for places to do research. Where do they go? They go to agribusiness. Why? Because that’s where the money is.
Claire McCaskill: Right.
Jon Tester: And guess what? They get the research they get paid for.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah, that’s really insidious, isn’t it?
Jon Tester: Yeah, and it helps production ag, but certainly not to the extent that good, honest, public-funded research would do.
Claire McCaskill: So, Jon, let’s talk a little bit about food insecurity and the Farm Bill. People don’t realize this, but one of the most important things in the Farm Bill every five years or so, depending on how well Congress is behaving, is the inclusion of the SNAP benefits, the food benefits for folks who are going hungry. Talk about that and the Farm Bill and also talk about this as an issue in the election, both the inflation and these benefits that are so important to so many Americans.
Jon Tester: So there’s a lot of things that impact democracies for the positive and the negative. And if you’ve got a hungry society, democracy is the last thing that’s going to survive. So in the richest country in the world, or one of the richest countries in the world, a place that raises literally the best food in the world, when we have folks that can’t afford to buy food to put on the table to feed their family, that becomes the number one issue in their lives.
That’s why we need to have a Farm Bill that not only supports people in production ag, but also supports folks who need help putting food on the table. It is really fundamental to who we are as a nation. And, you know, we still don’t have a Farm Bill. We’re nine months after the fact, and we need to get one because that certainty is very, very important to allow parents to be able to their kids. I mean, what’s more important than that? Okay.
And in this election, it’s a huge issue because there has been increased costs for food, and that’s put more pressure on the people that are on fixed incomes, who are, you know, low income makers. And so they need that support. And God bless us for a country for being able to provide some support to those folks who need help. That’s what it should be about.
And so as the Farm Bill moves forward, and I know there’s some that say, oh, we need to take money out of SNAP, and we need to put it over here, put it there. Look, we’ve got to figure out a way to help family farm agriculture, and we got to figure out a way to help feed people in this country. That’s what the Farm Bill should be about and that’s the Farm Bill we should pass.
And look, I like Debbie Stabenow. I think she’s a great person. I like John Bozeman. I think he’s a great person. But they need to get together and find out what they agree upon and get a bill on the floor so that people can have the confidence that when they need help, we’re going to be there to help them and get them through these tough times. And hopefully next year, they won’t need the help. And that’s a good thing.
Claire McCaskill: We’re going to take a quick pause here. But when we’re back, more with Senator Jon Tester. Back in a moment.
(ADVERTISEMENT)
Jennifer Palmieri: Welcome back. We’ve been talking with Senator Jon Tester of Montana about foodflation and the frustration voters have about food prices.
Claire McCaskill: Senator, I want to shift gears now. Okay, so let’s talk a little bit about the race. Tell me about it.
Jon Tester: What race is that? (Inaudible).
Claire McCaskill: I love a Montana Senate race.
Jon Tester: I’ve always wanted to be number one, Claire, always. And now I am. I’m the number one target by the Republican Party, and the junior senator for Montana is running the RSCC.
Claire McCaskill: So I did you a favor by losing, is what you’re saying.
Jon Tester: Yeah, because, as you remember, you used to be number one.
Claire McCaskill: I was number one for a while.
Jon Tester: Now I’m number one. But look, it’s a race where they’re trying to make me into something I’m not so they can run against that person because they damn well know they can’t beat me because I’ve got a record of accomplishment. We’re going to be able to talk about what we’re going to do moving into the future as far as moving this country forward. You know, we have the greatest economy and the greatest military in the world. That didn’t happen by accident.
And you know, Claire, as well as I do, there’s way too many people here that think about themselves only, and they don’t think about this country as a whole. And I’m telling you, our parents and grandparents and the founders of the Constitution, all those folks were brilliant people. And they didn’t have some knuckleheads here that all they think about is the party or what are we going to do to make sure we win this next election, to hell with the regular rank and file people in this country. And quite honestly, that’s what I’m going to be talking about.
Claire McCaskill: Everybody in that state, all they do is call him Jon. And everyone in Montana knows that Jon is for real. And the second most famous resident to come out of Big Sandy.
Jon Tester: That’s true. Yeah. Next to Jeff Ament, who’s the bass player for Pearl Jam. Look, this is a close race. It’s going to be a close race. My races have always been close. And I hope this one’s close because I don’t want to ruin my record having close races. But the bottom line is, if the election was held today, I am very, very confident we would win.
I think there’s a lot of things going on right now that people are paying attention to that are going to be important in this race, whether it’s somebody who really doesn’t understand the value of public lands in the state of Montana, or understand rural hospitals and what they’re going through right now, or understand the value of public education.
But all that stuff has to do with Montana values where your word is your bond and a handshake means something in Montana. And a lot of those values are trying to be taken away. And we’re seeing driving up property values and housing prices and taxes. And it all has to do with folks who come to the state. They got thick wallets and they want to be a Montana and they want to be a cowboy. So they buy their way in, make those claims. But the truth is, if you’re a true cattleman, if you’re a rancher, that doesn’t happen overnight. That happens with a lot of experience. And oftentimes, even it takes generations.
Claire McCaskill: So, I watch what Trump has done as it relates to denigrating the military. And I think about you. You know, people need to understand that when you come to the Senate, you have a choice about what committees you request. And it’s a very strategic decision and it’s driven by two or three things. But the most important thing on the list is what do you really care about?
I was fortunate enough to get on Armed Services because I cared deeply about the military, but Jon, he was really wanted to be on the Veterans Affairs Committee. And now you are the chairman of that committee. Why don’t you take a minute —
Jon Tester: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: — and talk a little bit about your chairmanship of that committee and what you’ve been able to deliver for Americans best.
Jon Tester: Yep. I want to back up a little bit though, Claire. I never served in the military. The Vietnam War was winding down when I was a junior in high school. So I never went in. I’m not sure they had taken me anyway because of some fingers that are missing. But that aside, I got a tremendous amount of respect for being around those guys. They’re just tremendous. And so now you fast forward, I get elected to the U.S. Senate.
I have an opportunity to do something for the veterans that, quite frankly, did a lot for me. And the result of that has been we’ve been able to do some stuff in mental health with the John Scott Hannon bill. We’ve been able to do stuff with women’s veterans with the Deb Sanderson Act. We’ve been able to take care of toxic exposure, something that never, ever, ever, ever has happened in this country, you know, with mustard gas in World War I, and radiation in World War II, and Agent Orange in Vietnam War.
Now the burn pits, we finally got a bill. Biggest expansion of healthcare and benefits. I wrote that bill and we got it passed. Much to the chagrin of many people, but we got it passed because it was the right thing to do for our veterans. And the veterans fought like hell for that bill, by the way and that’s why we did get it passed.
But those are just a few things. The Mission Act to make sure that people that are way, way out in the sticks can get access to private health care when the VA clinic’s way too far away. And all that is really, really important. And it’s important because we have an all-volunteer military. And if we want the next generation of folks to sign up to our all-volunteer military and not have to implement a draft, how we treat our veterans when they come home is very, very important because these folks are looking at how we’re treating them and making sure that, hey, they’re treating us good. They’re living up to the end of the bargain. When I sign the dotted line, I know they got my back when I get home. And that’s really where it’s at.
And, you know, those kind of things are pretty exemplary for what we’ve done for the veterans in the country. And does that mean the VA is perfect? You know very well it is not. It’s got ways to go, particularly in mental health, particularly in getting the number of doctors and nurses we need on the ground to make sure we’re getting the veterans the health care that they have earned. And so we’re going to continue to work to make the VA better and better. But I will tell you, over the last 10, 15 years, it’s changed a lot.
Claire McCaskill: It has.
Jon Tester: It’s changed a lot for the better.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah. And I think Dennis McDonough is doing it. I don’t know from where you sit —
Jon Tester: I love him. I think he’s a good guy.
Claire McCaskill: — but isn’t he doing a good job?
Jon Tester: He’s doing a great job.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah, he’s a really smart guy. I think this whole thing that anybody who’s been doing it and doing it well, we still need to get them out of there because they’ve just been there too long. Talk about bullshit. Dennis McDonough is a great example of that. And guess who else is my friend?
Jon Tester: Who is that?
Claire McCaskill: Jon Tester.
Jon Tester: All right. All right.
Claire McCaskill: All right. All right.
Jennifer Palmieri: Thank you so much.
Claire McCaskill: Thank you, my friend, for your time. Give Sharla a hug for me and keep kicking ass out there. I know you will.
Jon Tester: I just want to tell you, I’ve never been interviewed by two better people.
Claire McCaskill: That’s the sweetest.
Jon Tester: Thank you, guys.
Claire McCaskill: Before we wrap up this week, we wanted to address a listener question we got from Jenny in San Antonio, Texas. Jenny writes, I hear frequently that ordinary citizens can and should get in on the ground game for the elections. I live in San Antonio, Texas where I don’t feel safe as a Democrat in this current political climate, even to put a Biden bumper sticker on my car.
Knocking on doors in a stand-your-ground state is a no-go for me. I’m writing postcards to a battleground state. I was assigned Nevada. I can afford 300 postcard stamps. That will be $171 when I’m supposed to mail them in October. I also donate $10 a month. Do you have any suggestions for people like me? Limited money, resources, and fear of being shot are my problems, but I want to help defend democracy.
Jennifer Palmieri: Oh, my God. I wish democracy didn’t take money or courage, but it does.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah. And first of all, I want to tell people to be brave.
Jennifer Palmieri: There’s more of you out there. Jenny, you’re not the only one. If you are feeling this way in San Antonio, Texas, there are more of you. These things do not happen in a vacuum.
Claire McCaskill: I think one suggestion I would make to people, obviously, Jenny, has done her homework and figured out how to help with postcards from home. But I would encourage people to look for meetings locally of Democrats that are gathering, whether it is a volunteers gathering for the Biden campaign, or maybe it’s for a congressional campaign or a Senate campaign.
Jennifer Palmieri: Mayor’s race. I mean, San Antonio is, yeah.
Claire McCaskill: Yeah. Maybe it’s a state legislative race.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah.
Claire McCaskill: But if you go where people are gathered, you will have a sense of community and you will see what other people are doing and how you can be part of that group. First of all, it’s fun. I always tell people who came to volunteer in my campaign, you will never get more warm beer and cold pizza in your life than if you hang out helping people campaign. And I think that sense of community is really important in this election.
It takes away some of the fear that you’re alone and that somehow everybody is on the other side and you find ways to help. Call your local Democratic committee, call the state Democratic Party, ask them for a gathering in your community that you can attend and go from there.
Jennifer Palmieri: Yeah. I wouldn’t discount talking to people in your own family as well. Sometimes that’s a difficult situation, but if people are wavering or are not sure if they even should vote or why they would to have those conversations with them, you know, your voice really matters. It matters to people in your family. And then those have ripple effects elsewhere, too. The person-to-person contact when people don’t trust any source of information is really important.
Thanks so much for listening. If you have a question for us, you can send it to howtowinquestions@nbcuni.com, or you can leave us a voicemail at 646-974-4194 and we might answer it on the pod.
And remember to subscribe to MSNBC’s How to Win newsletter to get weekly insights on this year’s key races sent straight to your inbox. Visit the link in our show notes to sign up for that.
This show is produced by Vicki Vergolina. Janmaris Perez is our associate producer. Katherine Anderson and Bob Mallory are our audio engineers. Our head of audio production is Bryson Barnes. Aisha Turner is the executive producer for MSNBC Audio. And Rebecca Kutler is the senior vice president for content strategy at MSNBC. Search for “How to Win 2024” wherever you get your podcasts and follow the series.