We’re thrilled to share our summer #WITHpod mailbag, which was originally hosted on Instagram Live. Join as Chris and producer Doni Holloway talk about the upcoming #WITHpod tour, go through your questions, discuss feedback you’ve sent and share pod updates.
Note: This is a rough transcript — please excuse any typos.
Chris Hayes: Hello and welcome to “Why is This Happening” with me, your host, Chris Hayes.
I don’t know if any of you or I should say, I don’t know if any of you were here for our Spaces where grandpa had some tech difficulties. And it was like a truly ludicrous situation for like 10 minutes, but this is smooth. Huge props to ace producer, Doni Holloway, who was very on top of this from the beginning and made sure we knew what we were doing upfront.
Doni Holloway: My pleasure. Looking forward to it.
Chris Hayes: It’s cool. I see now why it’s such a weird interface, right? It’s like, I don’t watch a lot of Instagram lives, but the like comment scroll. And then when you like watch them later, you see the person being like huh because they’re like staring.
Doni Holloway: I know.
Chris Hayes: It’s sort of a strange interface.
Doni Holloway: They’re like leaning into the camera.
Chris Hayes: Yeah. Like, what? No, screw you.
Doni Holloway: Exactly.
Chris Hayes: But yeah, it’s great to have you guys here. You know, I think we decided we did Spaces last time, but I just think like we’re at a point where just can’t do it over there.
Doni Holloway: Yeah. We did Spaces on Twitter, but now I guess it’s X Spaces. So, we’re just like we’re going to do something different and do it over here on Instagram.
Chris Hayes: But also just like the guy that’s running that thing is really out of pocket. And I mean out of pocket. Do you know this about out of pocket that has different generational meanings?
Doni Holloway: Oh no, I didn’t know that.
Chris Hayes: So, for like people like my parents age, out of pocket means like out of the office, like in the woods or something.
Doni Holloway: Oh, like you’re not available.
Chris Hayes: Not available.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: But out of pocket for folks your age means like out of their mind.
Doni Holloway: Right, exactly. That’s the way I’ve always heard it.
Chris Hayes: So yeah, we are recording here. We’re going. We got lots of people joining us.
Doni Holloway: Yeah, we got so much good feedback before, so we’re glad to do it again.
Chris Hayes: I got my microphone recording here. My MixPre is on, Doni Holloway.
Doni Holloway: Awesome. Perfect.
Chris Hayes: I got my little light that you got me, which is, you know, doing a decent job of the fill.
Doni Holloway: Awesome, yeah.
Chris Hayes: And so, let’s do it.
Doni Holloway: Great, let’s get started.
Chris Hayes: I’ll let you take it away. You’re driving and I’m riding.
Doni Holloway: Of course. Well, I love that. So, it’s so great to partner with you, of course, Chris, on the vision for the podcast. We love the audience engagement piece of it. Really love hearing from so many people. We heard from a lot of people in our mail bag as we were getting ready for this. We’re also opening it up for live questions as we go along. I thought it would be a good chance for us to introduce new listeners to the podcast as well. So, Chris, if you want to walk through a little bit of an overview of kind of like what is “Why is This Happening.”
Chris Hayes: Hey, what’s up to Zach Lebarski (ph), by the way, who just said hello, who I know is a very devoted —
Doni Holloway: Oh, he’s a super fan.
Chris Hayes: A devoted super fan WITHpod listener. Shout out to Zach. Yeah, so this started five years ago. You know, I do a cable news show called “All In with Chris Hayes.” I’ve been doing it for 10 years now. And one of the things is that cable news is sort of like, it has its own formal genre constraints. We have, for instance, commercial breaks. Those commercial breaks last around four minutes. They mean that the blocks have to be truncated between them. It means that you’re sort of always working against like a time condition. It’s also live. So, you know, live television, you can’t edit afterwards. If someone’s like not really comfortable speaking on camera in a live setting and you put them on, you don’t have time to like warm up.
Doni Holloway: Exactly.
Chris Hayes: You can’t be like, all right, you’re good. I know that you’re good, but like, you’re a little nervous. So like, let’s keep it going.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: And so, it just, as a sort of a formal matter, there’s constraints, you know, to what you can and can’t do well in that genre, which I love and, you know, I’m very proud of the work we do there. It’s just that podcasts open up a whole other window. Like you can have people on the podcast who maybe aren’t the most comfortable public speakers, but –
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: — you give them some time. You sort of let them warm up and talk about their expertise. Then afterwards, Doni, who’s a great editor, can go back and edit and you can make something that really works. You have time to dig into topics in real depth. You’re not fighting against commercial breaks. And also things that are kind of off the news cycle. People go to podcasts, I think, for just a kind of different sort of experience, and I think that it allowed me. I was itching to do some deeper dives on stuff, to go talk to experts about things, even talk to people who aren’t like famous in any way.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: We’ve had people on the program who are, you know, I had a restaurateur on the program and I’ve had organizers on the program. And –
Doni Holloway: Totally.
Chris Hayes: — so, there’s lots of freedom that podcasting gives you. So that’s why we sort of originally thought of doing it, and I’ve been super happy with it. I really find that I learn a ton from it.
Doni Holloway: Yeah, it continues to be so exciting. Such a great run, Chris. Of course, we celebrated five years of doing WITHpod this year. Now we’re at over 275 episodes and counting. So exciting times here and, you know, people can definitely find WITHpod wherever they get their podcasts as we say. I know we’ve said that so many times. It’s true. You can find it wherever you listen to your podcasts. And, you know, Chris, speaking of where people can find us, we have a really exciting announcement to share about where people can find us in the fall.
Chris Hayes: Yes, we’re going on tour. So we’ve done this in the past. We did live WITHpods in a bunch of cities. And first, let me just say, if you don’t live in these cities, I can hear you saying, why are you not going to my city and I hear you. We want to do more of these. This is just the beginning. This is not exclusive. And there’s all sorts of places I’d like to visit. I’m going to have a book out probably in 2024, 2025 that will probably put me on the road and we might figure out a way to do some synergy there in corporate speak.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: This is not an exclusive list, but we’re hitting the road this fall. We’re going to be going to Austin, Texas.
Doni Holloway: Yeah. September 23.
Chris Hayes: September 23 and in Austin, Texas, which is part of the Texas Tribune Fest. I’m going to have Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord, who are, of course, the great co-hosts of the “Prosecuting Donald ”Trump” podcast that MSNBC does. And we’ll have a lot to talk about on that stage.
Doni Holloway: So much to unpack.
Chris Hayes: There’s like a lot. There’s like 91 charges to get through in that —
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: — time allotted. After that, we’re going to go to Chicago. It’s going to be Chicago Monday night of October 9, am I right?
Doni Holloway: October 9, yeah. That’s right.
Chris Hayes: October 9 at the House of Blues, an amazing venue. We’re still setting the guests there, so stay tuned for that. Last time we were there, we had Nikole Hannah-Jones and Ibram Kendi. It was fantastic. It was like seven degrees out and the place was backed, which was a classic and amazing Chicago performance. Then we’re going to go, I think the next Monday, October 16.
Doni Holloway: Yeah, the following Monday.
Chris Hayes: I’m going to be in Philadelphia with one of the great writers, non-fiction writers, I think of our time, Naomi Klein, who’s got an amazing new book that’s coming out. That book is called “Doppelganger.”
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: It’s sort of about the weird epistemic mirror world of the modern internet and how people fall into the rabbit holes and how they become vaccine skeptics and truthers and all these things. It’s really a fascinating, beautifully-written book. And then.
Doni Holloway: In November we’ll be with a very special guest on November 12t, the one and only.
Chris Hayes: November 12 in New York City at town hall with Rachel Maddow. And she’s got a new book coming out that’s sort of tied into that “Ultra” podcast she did about sort of the fascist plots and conspiracies around World War II, the attempt to try those folks for sedition, ultimately unsuccessful. So, yeah, it’s going to be an amazing, totally amazing tour.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: I love meeting people. I love doing live stuff. I’m a theater kid at heart. Still am.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: That’s my first medium is a room with people. So it’s going to be fantastic. And Doni, you want to tell them where they can get tickets for that?
Doni Holloway: Yeah, definitely. To get the tickets, you can go on msnbc.com/WITHpodtour. Be sure to get your tickets. Chris, it was interesting. I forwarded this along to you. We already heard someone say that they got a ticket to the Chicago event as their early Christmas present. So –
Chris Hayes: Yes.
Doni Holloway: — I think –-
Chris Hayes: I love it!
Doni Holloway: — WITHpod tour tickets work for a holiday present, birthday present.
Chris Hayes: Absolutely.
Doni Holloway: Someone actually did say they got one as their birthday present already. So, so many different reasons to come and join us. We’re really looking forward to it.
Chris, you know that the Rachel Maddow one I think is so interesting, too, because like just the everyday fights to preserve American democracy and the rise of authoritarianism, all the historical moments that have led to where we are now, and it’d just be really interesting to hear more about her upcoming book, “Prequel: An American Fight Against Fascism.”
Chris Hayes: Yeah, that’s going to be great. I don’t have an advanced copy of that book yet, but it’s going to be awesome. I found that “Ultra” podcast. If anyone’s listening to this and hasn’t listened to that, like it’s fascinating and gripping and in sort of classic Rachel fashion. I mean, it’s just incredibly well told, but also you’re listening and you’re like, how did I not know this history? How have I never heard of this?
Doni Holloway: Exactly.
Chris Hayes: It’s really like —
Doni Holloway: That was your reaction. Yeah.
Chris Hayes: — amazingly buried chapter of American history. So.
Doni Holloway: For sure. Pretty cool that Steven Spielberg already acquired film rights to that as well, so.
Chris Hayes: Yeah.
Doni Holloway: We love Rachel. Speaking of guests, Chris, we had some favorite guests this year. Too many favorites to really name them all, but I know we got a lot of good feedback on some guests in particular. The Minnijean Brown-Trickey one, one of the Little Rock Nine members, that one was just so touching when she talked about just being irrepressible and how she channeled the trauma that she experienced as one of the Little Rock Nine into a life of activism.
Chris Hayes: Yeah, Minnijean Brown-Trickey, she is an incredible woman. I got a chance to meet her when we did this event in New Orleans and I was just like, I spent the whole day kind of talking to her. There was an after party. She came to the after party afterwards. We were all like hanging out in the hotel lobby and like, you know, having a cocktail and eating like pizza. We’d order at the lobby and she was just like –
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: — there, like holding court and talking to us. She was just such an incredible woman. And I was like, I got to talk to her more. So that was I think one of the best we’ve ever done.
Doni Holloway: For sure.
Chris Hayes: And just the sort of humanity of her, like and what she’s learned from the experience she had. That’s like one of my top five I think that we’ve ever done. A lot of people have talked to me about that and we’ve gotten a lot of feedback about that, like how it affected them.
Doni Holloway: For sure, yeah. We definitely did. Just the way that she speaks, it’s like you really feel –
Chris Hayes: Yeah.
Doni Holloway: — everything that she’s talking about. The Rula Jebreal episode was another favorite one, of course, that we got a lot of good feedback on.
Chris Hayes: Rula’s just so fascinating, because she’s an Israeli citizen.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: She’s an Arab-Israeli. Her family’s Palestinian. Her father, I think, was an imam at the mosque in Jerusalem, if I’m not mistaken.
Doni Holloway: I believe so.
Chris Hayes: She then moved to Italy in her teenage years and has Italian citizenship and then she came to the U.S. So she’s someone who speaks Hebrew, Arabic, Italian, English all fluently, has experience in all three different worlds, in American politics, in Italian politics, in Israeli and Palestinian politics. So she just has this incredibly unique perspective.
Doni Holloway: For sure.
Chris Hayes: Not a lot of people have, you know, that sort of level of perspective from these different points of view. And she’s able to talk particularly about sort of authoritarianism, the rise of kind of what we might call fascist nostalgia in Italy —
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: — under Giorgia Meloni whose party whose symbol sort of hearkens back to the Mussolini fascist party. And then also about what’s going on in Israel and Palestine and also what’s going on here in the U.S. And that was really a great conversation. She’s also just an incredibly amazing storyteller.
Doni Holloway: Incredible.
Chris Hayes: And presence. And she wrote an amazing book called “Miral,” which people should check out that book, which was then turned to a film by Julian Schnabel. All of that I recommend.
Doni Holloway: It’s a really important conversation about the rise of global authoritarianism. I mean, you know, there was that Freedom House annual report that cited global freedom declining for the 17th consecutive year –
Chris Hayes: Yeah.
Doni Holloway: — in 2022. So, if you haven’t heard that conversation, be sure to go and check it out. Another one, Chris, I mean, I know we have a lot of favorites, so we’re just going to go through a few of them, but a few more.
Chris Hayes: They’re like children.
Doni Holloway: Exactly. The Kate Crawford one on A.I. I mean, just where we are in this moment and what it pertains for the future. That one, we got a lot of feedback on as well.
Chris Hayes: Yeah, and I think, you know, particularly because it’s been such a top of mind topic, it’s exploded so intensely. I find it very difficult even now to sort of separate like the hype from the reality, from the doomerism, from the kind of sci-fi dystopia aspects. And she’s someone who’s been studying and thinking about this for, I think, decades, if I’m not mistaken. And I think that gave a sort of depth and nuance to it.
Doni Holloway: For sure. She called A.I. an “exponential disruption.” So that was a really interesting quotable from her on that. We also, another guest, or two guests actually, Anne Case and Angus Deaton talking about why Americans are dying so young.
Chris Hayes: That’s another of my favorites of this year, even though it was a very grim, you know, conversation. The work they’ve done on what they call death and despair and just the fact that, you know, the central sociological phenomenon, the central, you know, I don’t know, problem in America right now to me is that we have seen a plummeting in life expectancy and it just shouldn’t happen –
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: — in a wealthy country like ours. I’m briefly distracted by the insanity of the comments. Love you all. And so, yeah, so I think that like that conversation is really worthwhile for folks to go check out if they haven’t yet.
Doni Holloway: For sure, yeah. It was interesting that the declining life expectancy was a trend before even the pandemic. You might have thought that –
Chris Hayes: Yes.
Doni Holloway: — it was just COVID, but no. They point to some interesting things that have led to that, and then two other ones. So the Senator Warnock one, the fight for preserving our democracy. That one was a really interesting one. And fighting to protect voting rights, of course, top of mind as we head into 2024.
Chris Hayes: Yeah. And I think, you know, Warnock is just such an interesting person. I mean, I think he’s, fair to say, sort of unlike anyone that’s ever served in that body before. He’s, you know, currently the reverend at the legendary church in Atlanta.
Doni Holloway: Exactly.
Chris Hayes: It’s the church that Martin Luther King’s father, and then Martin Luther King preached at. He’s been an activist his whole life.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: Like the fact that he’s a U.S. senator is just incredible.
Doni Holloway: And anybody who can win all of those races, I mean, that was –
Chris Hayes: Yeah.
Doni Holloway: — a lot that he had to do. And then finally, another interesting one that’s always a favorite is when we do our crossover episodes with “Strict Scrutiny,” which is co-hosted by your wife, wonderful wife, Kate, and her co-hosts Leah Litman and Melissa Murray, that one where we talked about the SCOTUS term and, you know, how they ended the term with a number of big decisions, including striking down affirmative action, issuing opinions in that 303 creative case and invalidating the Biden administration’s student debt relief program.
Chris Hayes: Yeah, I’m lucky I have a personal household like law explainer in my very brilliant wife, Kate Shaw, who is a law professor at Cardozo.
Doni Holloway: Incredible.
Chris Hayes: And she’s also a contributor to “The New York Times” for their opinion pages. And she is one of the co-hosts of “Strict Scrutiny” along with Leah Litman and Melissa Murray, which I would recommend folks to check out.
Doni Holloway: She’s incredible.
Chris Hayes: And, yeah, she is. Oh, hey, Jacob Soboroff.
Doni Holloway: Oh, hey, we know that name.
Chris Hayes: So –
Doni Holloway: So, you want to go through some of the feedback that we’ve been getting?
Chris Hayes: Yeah, so let’s open up the mailbag here.
Doni Holloway: Yeah, for sure. So, we really love hearing from you. You can keep the comments coming using the hashtag #WITHpod. Also, while we’re doing this live conversation, be sure to keep sharing your comments and questions in the comment section here. Keep them brief, please, so we can get to them.
Chris Hayes: More of our conversation after this quick break.
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Doni Holloway: Chris, as some of those additional comments come in, some of the most recent feedback that we’ve gotten, we get so many responses. We got a lot on the episode with Bill McKibben, environmentalist Bill McKibben. We’ve actually done a couple of episodes recently on climate. We were just saying the other day, it was like we could have done a whole series on climate change. So much urgency there for sure. This comment that we got comes from Gretchen. And Gretchen says, “Chris, I’m a fan of your podcast, but no more than after listening to you and Bill McKibben talk about the climate crisis.” She joined Third Act, that’s Bill McKibben’s organization, before the final credits. And she says she can’t thank you enough for keeping her energized. She’s especially loved the rocking chair protesters, referring to the 60 plus crowd that Bill’s organization focuses on mobilizing. So she also adds, keep asking why, keep asking the question why for all of us. That’s a big premise, literally, “Why is This Happening.”
Chris Hayes: Yeah, and I think Bill McKibben’s a really special guy. And I thought, you know, like I think the Minnijean episode. You know, the best episodes are where I don’t talk that much, where the guest just talks, and in the case of Minnijean and Bill, you know, those are just two people that you just, you know, you can just sit and listen to them. Like they’re incredibly wise, like beautiful souls with unbelievable amounts of boundless wisdom to share.
Doni Holloway: Exactly.
Chris Hayes: I love those kinds of conversations. So I’m glad folks liked the McKibben.
Doni Holloway: And as a producer, I really appreciated how they had so many great sound bites from those episodes. I remember Bill McKibben said that it’s not the summer that feels like hell, It’s the summer that sort of is hell, which –
Chris Hayes: Yes.
Doni Holloway: — is so true with rising temperatures. Another comment that we got came from Kyle (ph). He says, “Dear WITHpod, I would love to hear an in-depth conversation on ranked choice voting, proportional ranked choice voting and multi-member districting as described by fairvote.org and the Fair Representation Act.” He goes on to say that RCV is on the rise in localities around the nation and he thinks it can address many issues around fair representation, voter suppression, gerrymandering and much more. Kyle (ph) has been listening for over two years from the Marshall Islands and he thanks us for everything.
Chris Hayes: Well, that’s a great idea. I mean, I think this sort of idea of democracy reforms, sort of process reforms, it would be a great topic for a podcast. My brother actually, who has actually been a podcast guest, I’ve had him on the podcast, Luke Hayes.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: He was working, New York instituted RCV, ranked choice voting, and he was actually working for the group that was calling for it and instituting it, going around sort of explaining it to people. But I think it’s a good idea to do maybe like a democracy reform sort of multi because multi-member districts is also super fascinating and also take some explaining. So I think that’s a good idea. I’ll put that on the list, Doni.
Doni Holloway: For sure. Yeah. We got it on our outlook. So interesting how ranked choice voting has gained momentum and, you know, being implemented in states and localities across the country, like, you know, Virginia, Utah, California, here in New York city. So it’ll be interesting.
Chris Hayes: Alaska and Maine as well. Alaska where it’s played a huge role.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: And Mary Peltola winning that at large congressional seat that had been, you know, Don Young’s for 50 years or something like that.
Doni Holloway: Yeah. So, it does play a big role. This comment that we got comes from Tammy (ph). She says, just finished your excellent WITHpod. Actually this is hot off the presses. She’s referring to the one with Jeff Goodell, author of the recent book, “The Heat Will Kill You First.” Tammy (ph) says, “Public health and climate change harm reduction for vulnerable is anathema because Republicans would rather give dollars to corporations. They will never have political will, but they will always have air conditioning,” she says.
Chris Hayes: Well, it’s funny she says that because I think there’s something to that, but I also think it’s the case that like, we’re coming up soon on a period of time where like, this is going to push its way into the policy agenda, even for the most stalwart deniers. So like right now you’re seeing in Florida the homeowner insurance problem, home ownership and premiums. The insurance industry says, oh, it’s because of all this insurance fraud. And DeSantis says insurance fraud, plus the insurers themselves ripping people off and hiking premiums. But you’re just going to start to see, people are going to have to deal with the effects increasingly as front of mind political issues and policy issues even if they don’t deal with the causes.
Now, the most dangerous situation, the thing I fear, is that you’re going to get a lot of like, well, let’s deal with the effects and we have to deal with the heating and let’s bail out the insurance, the homeowners insurance industry without people being like, okay, well, we also have to do something about carbon emissions and –
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: — how we hit our Paris targets. So I do think you’re going to start to see that. Oh, hey, Amy Miller. How are you? I’ve known Amy. In fact, Amy and I go way back to the days of Chicago. Yeah, I’ve seen some folks here I haven’t seen in a while.
Doni Holloway: Nice.
Chris Hayes: It’s great to see Amy.
Doni Holloway: Maybe we’ll see her when we go on tour when we’re in Chicago.
Chris Hayes: Yes, maybe.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: Buy some tickets.
Doni Holloway: For sure.
Chris Hayes: And move that product.
Doni Holloway: Exactly.
Chris Hayes: So, yeah, so I think that’s my fear. Like I do think you’re going to get to a point of it’s sort of undeniable, the effects and how that gets dealt with. You’re going to have Republican solutions to it. I fear they’re just going to be detached from the, you know, the problem itself and the cause.
Doni Holloway: Right. And part of solving that problem, of course, is moving with such a sense of urgency because, you know, as we heard recently, we need to cut our emissions in half by 2030, if we’re going to meet those optimistic goals set forth in the Paris Agreement.
Chris Hayes: Yeah.
Doni Holloway: So that’s right around the corner. Reminder to keep sharing some of your questions and the comments, we’ll take a look at those. We can pull maybe, let’s see, Chris, have you seen any questions? I see we’re getting a lot of good feedback. We love good feedback.
Chris Hayes: Yeah, if you guys are listeners of the show and want to start posting questions and comments, we’ll take those now.
Doni Holloway: Definitely.
Chris Hayes: There’s a little bit of a lag on them. That’s what always makes these things so weird. I think we can’t think the government will fix carbon emissions. I mean, I don’t think the government alone can. I mean, it’s going to have to be a lot of different parts of society. Oh, that’s an interesting point about places without basements that you can’t get cold water. One of the stats that really blew my mind, and we talked about it in, I think both the McKibben and the Jeff Goodell podcast was like the ocean water off South Florida —
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: — this summer hitting like 98 degrees.
Doni Holloway: Yeah. So much that the sharks are coming closer to the shore because —
Chris Hayes: It’s just destroying the coral, but it’s also just like, that’s not right, dude. Ninety-eight degrees feels real like biblical plague kind of situation. Like there’s something deeply wrong.
Doni Holloway: Yeah. It’s kind of giving apocalyptic vibes like –
Chris Hayes: Yes.
Doni Holloway: — when we saw all that smoke from the Canadian wildfires in New York.
Chris Hayes: Exactly. Both of those things happening. I think that smoke this summer particularly, you know, people on the West Coast, I think we’re a little like, yeah, that’s what it’s like all summer –
Doni Holloway: (inaudible)
Chris Hayes: — which I totally get, but it was, you know, as someone who’s from the East Coast, we don’t have the depth. I mean, it just hasn’t happened before. We don’t have the seasonal wildfires that you have in the West. Oh, that’s a great question.
Doni Holloway: I love that question.
Chris Hayes: So yeah, it was really, really disturbing. “So a personal cue, if that’s okay. Your marriage is inspiring. What three things make it work?” Well, thank you. What three things make it work? Well, one, I don’t think this is always the case for people that get together young because most people get together young and it doesn’t work out. But for Kate and I, we started dating when we were 19 and we’ve been together, you know, 25 years. And I think one thing about that helps make our marriage work is that we’ve just sort of grown up together. You know, sometimes like, I have friends who like, you know, they started dating someone with 35 or 36 or they’re dating now and it’s like, oh, I have all these experiences and I have all these habits and things I like to do.
And this person has different habits and different interests and different things they like to do. And it’s like, we kind of formed those together with each other, which isn’t to say that we have like identical likes and interests (ph). We certainly don’t, but we’re just like very acclimated to each other. We really genuinely love each other’s company. Like I love like talking to each other, talking about anything, our kids, ideas, the news, whatever. And also just like, Kate’s just like the most like wonderful human being I’ve ever met —
Doni Holloway: Brilliant.
Chris Hayes: — which I think is a huge part of it. Even work (ph), too, because she’s such a good person and so kind and thoughtful. So those would be my three. That’s my three bullet points.
Doni Holloway: Love that. Love that. I love how you are we’re college sweethearts. It’s incredible. Let’s see, we got a few more. We got some more stuff coming in.
Chris Hayes: Predictions. Any predictions for the debate tonight? So, I don’t have predictions, so I don’t actually know. But the few things I’m looking at like, the two things I’m sort of really curious are about where they end up on the record on like the election being stolen or not stolen/January 6. I suspect there’ll be some question of the sort of format of like, you know, did Mike Pence do the right thing on January 6? Was the election stolen?
And also a question, something about a national abortion ban. I would imagine both of those will be moments in the debate that there’ll be on the record. Would you sign a national abortion ban at 12 weeks, at 15 weeks, at 16 weeks? I don’t know what they’re going to ask. But those are the sort of two big kind of stakes in the ground I’m curious about watching people put in. And other than that, I don’t know, man. Like my mom was like, do I have to watch this? I was like you don’t. No. You don’t have to watch it. It’s a free country, man. You do whatever you want.
Doni Holloway: We know someone who won’t be a part of it. Former President Trump will not be a part of it and has instead taped something with Mr. Tucker Carlson.
Chris Hayes: Yeah, which good for you. I mean, yeah, they taped it like four days ago.
Doni Holloway: All right.
Chris Hayes: But yeah, I mean, like, you know, the Trump thing about it is like, it’s actually a fairly standard, you know, you see this all the time in all dynamics, the front runner doesn’t want to debate and the people behind want to debate. It makes sense, right?
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: Compare the relative degrees of upside and downside. There’s very little downside risk if you’re behind in the polls, but there’s a lot of downside risk if you’re up in the polls because then you can screw up, right? So it’s not like some like, you know, masterstroke of genius or something like particularly Trumpian thing to be like, I’m not going to go to a debate because I’m up 30 points.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: So we’ll see.
Doni Holloway: Well, it’ll be interesting to watch the debate tonight. We got a number of pre-submitted questions from listeners. So our fans really are super fans in many ways. This question was interesting. It comes from Judy (ph). She wants to know your thought on print newspapers. She asked, are they dead in the age of social media and A.I.? I thought that was an interesting question from Judy (ph). Chris, I know you have a background in print as well.
Chris Hayes: Yeah, I mean, I came up through alternative weeklies, like the “Chicago Reader” —
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: — which have also died. They’ve suffered a similar fate as daily newspapers.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: You know, I think the business model for print for daily newspapers has collapsed, but the need for it is as strong as ever and possibly never been stronger. And the gap between those two is really the problem. Part of that is like a lot of like vulture-esque private equity funds have come in and bought these papers, sort of stripped them for parts, you know, basically tried to take them apart and sell them off and turn them into no longer functional entities.
So there’s been a bunch of that, but there’s also a deeper problem. You know, the biggest one was that classifieds made up a huge percentage of revenue. That went away. So I don’t know, man. It’s a rough time for media. It’s a rough time for business models. I mean, we were all having these conversations in ’08, ’09, and then 2010, you know, if you read the Ben Smith book called “Traffic” or some other writing on that period, there was a period where Facebook really turned the spigot on in the newsfeed for news.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: That produced a lot of traffic. It seeded a bunch of different companies, some of which were great, some of which were not that great, but it at least sort of gave some sense of like, oh, there’s a new model here and that has completely gone away right now.
So I don’t know what to do, honestly. But it’s pretty dire, the state of particularly local journalism. It’s a cliché to say that. Like everyone says that and it’s true. And they’re still like amazing, you know, the paper in Mississippi. There’s “The Clarion-Ledger,” which is the newspaper, but the “Mississippi Today,” which is the nonprofit Mississippi news that was founded recently, it was actually partly founded by Andy Lack, who used to be at NBC.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: And “Mississippi Today,” there’s a reporter named Anna Wolf, who basically like single-handedly uncovered this insane welfare dollar scandal involving Brett Favre in which like federal welfare dollars were being siphoned to this like one woman who had this basically slush fund where she got to like direct the dollars and they were going to all sorts of stuff that wasn’t what TANF money should go to, at least in my estimation, including like money for a new volleyball stadium at the school that Brett Favre’s daughter played volleyball at. And Anna Wolf, she won a Pulitzer actually, incredibly well deserved. She did an amazing job. She’s been on the show before, so there’s people doing amazing work. The Kansas newspaper that was just raided by local cops because they were tracking down a prominent citizen who had a DUI.
Doni Holloway: Love that question from Judy (ph). Another question that we got comes from Ellen (ph), and she says, the No Labels Party is eligible, of course, to run in several key states in the 2024 presidential election. We know the impact of third party candidates on close elections. The No Labels Party hasn’t announced candidates, no definite position on climate change or gun safety. She’s wondering if you share any concerns.
Chris Hayes: I’m concerned. I think it’s shady as hell. I think like we don’t really know who’s funding them. We don’t know what their objectives are. I find the entire thing like just really shady and untrustworthy.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: And one of those things where like no one can give any good answers to what they’re actually trying to do above these like no label centrist bromides. And I just think it’s like they’re really playing with fire. And they’re also doing it in this like very, you know, the idea that they’re representative of some grassroots groundswell. Like they just have a lot of money. So they’re trying to like use that as a sort of fulcrum to get up to some mischief that I find really suspect.
Doni Holloway: Yeah. It’s interesting. Also the concern about, you know, the siphoning of votes potentially with the No Labels Party.
Chris Hayes: Yes.
Doni Holloway: So another question that we got, you know, our folks love politics, of course, and we talk about politics a fair amount, of course, on WITHpod. A question that we got from Tom (ph). Tom (ph) says, “Any changes to the key states that might ensure a Biden electoral college win in the next election?”
Chris Hayes: You know, I don’t know. I mean, I think it’s likely to be the big same ones. Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.
Doni Holloway: Georgia and Arizona, too.
Chris Hayes: Georgia and Arizona.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: North Carolina sort of constantly like looks like it might be a swing and then sort of reliably produces these sort of, you know, two-point Republican victories. I think people feel like Florida is no longer a swing state and I think they probably feel that correctly. You know, Texas I think is still not really a swing state. I just read a fairly convincing case. Colin Allred, I think he’s from the Dallas suburbs, if I’m not mistaken, either Dallas or Houston suburbs, correct me which of those it is.
Doni Holloway: Yeah, he’s in Dallas.
Chris Hayes: He is in Dallas. Yeah, Dallas suburbs. He’s a relatively new member of Congress who’s going to run for Senate against Ted Cruz, former NFL player. I think he’s got a shot. You know, I just read a fairly persuasive case for why he has a shot against Cruz. So there’s that. But at the presidential level, I mean, I think those North Carolina, and then there’s Nevada also, which is going to be Nevada —
Doni Holloway: Right, Nevada, yeah.
Chris Hayes: — which is always going to be super close. You know, there’s always this sort of hope by Republicans that Minnesota, which was very close in 2016 actually or New Mexico might come online as possibilities. But I think it’s mostly the sort of tabletop that we’re sort of familiar with.
Doni Holloway: Right, yeah, for sure. I know that the University of Virginia Center for Politics did a study, like a first look at electoral college rankings and they had said the Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, and Wisconsin, so a lot of those that we just discussed. We talked about the Rula Jebreal guest who we had, who’s great, who’s phenomenal. We actually got a question from her. She’s one of our favorite WITHpod guests, Rula Jebreal, the journalist. She writes, “In two weeks, President Biden will attend the G20 where he’ll meet with Indian Prime Minister Modi and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, each of whom the U.S. has accused of grave human rights violations. How can Biden legitimately defend and promote American democracy and human rights at home if he abandons and casts these values aside when negotiating with Modi and MBS?”
Chris Hayes: That’s a great question. I mean, at one level, right, there’s always going to be this irresolvable tension between, you know, diplomacy writ large and the conduct of nations that you have diplomatic relationships with. I mean, that’s the sort of baseline thing that’s going to be true, right? I mean, diplomacy is most vital and has the highest returns often with countries that you have significant disagreements with, either geopolitically or in terms of, you know, principles of human rights, fair governance.
So, there’s a certain amount of that like that’s never going to go away. The thing that I found harder to justify from the Biden perspective, and I think Matt Duss who’s, you know, worked as a foreign policy advisor for Bernie Sanders, but also worked at ThinkProgress before that I’ve known for years, and I think is a very fair-minded critic. He’s not a hater. Where it’s been the case that like, it’s not just that those tensions are inherent. It’s that they’ve really gone out of their way to be very highfalutin in their rhetoric about like democracy –
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: — and the rules-based order and we’re bringing it back, that then makes it much harder to like, you know, climb down from that.
And then they’ve also made decisions, for instance, like Modi is someone who was, essentially, when he was the governor of a state that oversaw pogroms that there’s fairly credible evidence, basically had state authorities do nothing to stop, right? Modi was not able to travel to the U.S. before he was elected –
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: — as prime minister of India because of that. Now, again, India’s the largest democracy on the face of the Earth. There’s a billion people there. You can’t just be like, I’m not talking to Modi. Like, he’s the democratically-elected, leader of India. You got to talk to Modi.
Doni Holloway: It’s part of the job, yeah.
Chris Hayes: And it’s good to you. But they had a state dinner for him, right? You don’t have to extend a state dinner to anyone.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: And that to me, like, I found the state dinner like pretty objectionable. Again, it’s sort of easy for me to second guess. Like, I’m not running the very complicated calculations here. But like, so to Rula’s question, it’s like, yeah, I don’t think conversations on the sideline of G20 are indefensible or bad. Like, I think Saudi is a country that you have to have relationships with and India, you know, even more so.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: It’s that when you get very, very like soaring and sort of self-righteous in your rhetoric about we the U.S. and then, you know, you do all this stuff, it just like further cements this idea that it’s all B.S. And I think that’s a very ingrained belief around the world and not, you know, wrongly so.
Doni Holloway: Of course. Yeah. It’ll be interesting to see the convergence of global leaders there in New Delhi. Also, saw some information that, you know, Biden could come in close proximity with Putin there at the –
Chris Hayes: Yeah.
Doni Holloway: — G20, who, you know, hasn’t ruled out attending that yet. So, it’ll be interesting to see what comes out of New Delhi. We got a question from Michael (ph). I thought this was an interesting question. So Michael (ph) asks, he says, “As a member of Gen Z and a product of public school, he sees that success is often measured by the number of students high schools send to four-year universities. With the cost of higher education rising and well-paying jobs becoming more competitive, why do you think there’s not more emphasis or support infrastructure in place for encouraging contracting roles like plumbing and electricity or skilled care giving, that these jobs will likely be difficult to automate and there’s currently widespread demand for them.” That’s a very interesting question. Kind of reminds me of our episode with Ai-jen Poo on the care economy.
Chris Hayes: Yeah, I think there’s been a debate. I’ve heard this debate for years about, you know, basically too different to oversimplify. Is a four-year college degree like a high school degree once was where we’re just going to move towards a norm of K to 16 education? Or do we have to just accept the fact that not everyone’s going to college and we need to create sustainable, dignified, like rewarding careers and life paths for people that choose not to go to college. And I think it’s pretty clear that the latter is probably true in the end here. There has been some pretty interesting stuff happening.
One of the things Josh Shapiro, when he became governor of Pennsylvania did, was he put in this executive order, and actually Anne Case and Angus Deaton talked about this.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: He put in an executive order where there formerly had been a bunch of positions in state government that required a four-year college degree. And he was like, you don’t actually need a four-year college degree for some of these jobs. We’re going to not just have that as a standard thing and like remove that. And I think, you know, if you go back to like our second episode, maybe our third, Tressie McMillan Cottom, you know, she writes about higher ed and one of the big conflicts about what higher ed is, is higher ed educational? Like, is it giving you some set of, you know, knowledge and skills? Or is it just a credentialing thing that says like, you have this credential, ergo, you can go get these jobs that make this much money.
Doni Holloway: It’s a good point.
Chris Hayes: And there’s a tension because I think it’s both and I think different institutions lean towards one side of that and the other it’s always a mix. But I think that some of the resentment around educational polarization is a sense that it’s just an expensive credential that people get so that they have this, like, you know, it’s like when you walk into a, you know, an event with like, you have the wristband, right?
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: It’s like you can go to that part of the concert. And it’s like, that’s what a four-year college degree is. Like you show it and they’re like, oh yeah, the free drinks are back there.
Doni Holloway: Exactly.
Chris Hayes: So I think like thinking about pathways that are sustaining and rewarding, and also this is another key thing that have growth within them. So this is something that like the nurses union has been really good about. It’s something that a bunch of different unions will talk about is you could say, okay, here’s jobs you can get, you know, with a high school degree, but there’s also got to be paths to growth there. There’s got to be learning in the job, right? So that people can start out as like, can you go from a nurse to a nurse practitioner, for instance, right? You know, going from an apprentice to like a master electrician, right? There are ladders within the professions themselves so that, you know, you get new skills and that you’re sort of always adding to your sort of human capital.
Doni Holloway: Yeah, that’s a very interesting point. And I think as we come out of the previous Supreme Court term, and you know, there’s a lot of thought on this topic on the cost of education and student debt and then what is the sort of ROI or, you know, the return on investment for that.
Chris Hayes: Yeah.
Doni Holloway: So we got that generational type question. What are we saying? We’re getting a lot of comments here.
Chris Hayes: Shout out to PraiseJa420God (ph) who says, “I’m literally just pulling bong rips and taking this in.” You do you, PraiseJa420God (ph).
Doni Holloway: Okay. Whole new meaning to what you’re doing while you’re listening to WITHpod. We got another sort of generational question from Dave (ph). Dave (ph) says, “Most young people in the United States do not vote, and very few U.S. presidents can claim to have won that demographic. But this is also the year that Parkland kids are graduating college, and if David Hogg is any indication, they’re engaged and energized. And gun control is one of the issues that is likely to galvanize them all the way to the polls.” Dave adds, “Perhaps this is a Kornacki question.” I just ran into Steve Kornacki earlier, but he asks, “Is there any evidence to show that the 18 to 29 vote will be a factor in 2024?”
Chris Hayes: Yeah, I think there is. And I think one of the things that happened in, if I’m not mistaken, I’m doing this from memory, I think that there was less midterm drop off from 20 to 22 and also from 16 to 18 that we’ve seen. You always have drop off from that, you know, older people vote at higher rates and they vote reliably at higher rates in midterm and off-year elections. So there’s always a drop-off. The drop-off was less for that cohort in ’22 than you probably would have predicted. So even though there was a drop-off, it was less of a drop-off, and that marginal difference actually was really important. So there’s a real question sort of what those turnout levels look like. And, you know, again, demographics in an election are not an electoral college, meaning it’s not a winner take all. It’s like, well, you win young people. It’s like every vote counts the same as every vote, particularly in a swing state, right? So it’s like —
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: — however many more of those marginal votes you get in a state that’s decided by 10,000 votes, if you get a thousand more people, 18 to 29 to vote in Arizona and they break for you 70-30, right. That’s plus 4,000. That’s 40% of the entire margin of the state. I slipped an order of magnitude there, but at every increment, you know, you’re producing votes.
We’ll be right back after we take this quick break.
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Doni Holloway: We got another politics-related question. So this one comes from Ray (ph). He actually had multiple questions. This shows the enthusiasm for our mailbag call to actions. But I chose one of them and he says, “If there is one thing that you could change or one law you could single-handedly enact to strengthen American democracy, what would it be?” No pressure, Chris.
Chris Hayes: I think it would be direct election of presidents. Like just get rid of the electoral college. I think the electoral college is just like, wildly indefensible on like first principles ground.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: I think it creates all sorts of room for mischief that we saw exploited. We’ve seen it exploited in 2000 in Bush v. Gore and really exploited in 2020. It’s a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. It reliably produces undemocratic outcomes. It also keeps a huge percentage of the country out of presidential races.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: And I think if you’re going to do one thing, it’s like make national popular vote elect the president. Now there’s a whole bunch of other stuff. There’s arguments for multi-member districts. Getting rid of the Senate is another one that you could think of or reapportioning it. But yes, these are like one straightforward, single-handed thing. It’s arguably the most powerful position in the entire world and the idea that you can have someone who gets less votes occupying is insane.
Doni Holloway: Yeah. For sure. I also think about Senator Warnock’s push on voting rights, you know, voting rights laws and the importance of that.
Chris Hayes: Yeah.
Doni Holloway: So, okay, we can kind of pivot a little bit here now and get into some lighter questions. We got some hard hitting questions in our mailbag this time around. But one question that we got, Jody (ph). Jody (ph) writes, she asks, “What did you think of Oppenheimer?”
Chris Hayes: I haven’t seen it yet.
Doni Holloway: I haven’t seen it either.
Chris Hayes: I have seen neither. So, two times my family’s gone to see “Barbie” and both times I had to do something. So I haven’t seen “Barbie” and I haven’t seen “Oppenheimer” and I want to see them both. My family loved “Barbie,” like loved, loved “Barbie.” We listen to the soundtrack, but I still have not seen either.
Doni Holloway: Yeah. I know it’s like the talk of the summer, like Barbenheimer, this fascinating story about Oppenheimer’s work on that top secret Manhattan project.
Chris Hayes: Yes. The biography that that is based on called “American Prometheus.” I’m not going to pretend that I read the whole thing because it’s like a thousand pages, but I’ve read big chunks of it and that’s a pretty amazing book.
Doni Holloway: Yeah, well, maybe on the next mailbag, we’ll get your thoughts on when you see “Oppenheimer.” Okay, so we got another question, another fun one. I really like this one from Andre (ph). Andre (ph) is a big super fan of WITHpod. He says, “As a fan and frequent listener of WITHpod, I’m aware that, like me, you have a love for cities. Out of curiosity, if not for New York City or Chicago, what other city in the U.S. would be the most exciting for you to live in considering culture, politics, public and civic advancement, et cetera?” Chris, I’m going to jump in and say you can’t say D.C. because I know you lived there before.
Chris Hayes: That’s a really interesting question. I think there’s probably three cities. Los Angeles would be one, just because I have a lot of friends there.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: I never used to like it, but I’ve really grown to like it when I go there now. I think particularly in the era of like work from home, I think it’s really altered life in L.A., like people not having to deal with these crazy commutes. And then the other two cities, I don’t know, like living there, but like that I just really love are New Orleans and Miami.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: And both because they just feel so like their own thing. Like when you’re in New Orleans, you’re not ever mistaking that you’re in New Orleans and when you’re in Miami, like you definitely know you’re in Miami.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: And I just love that about both of those cities that they’re like that. That they are completely like distinct, sort of culturally complete in this way, places that are like are themselves fully.
Doni Holloway: Right.
Chris Hayes: And then there’s a lot of cities I can imagine myself liking to live in. Like I spent a little bit of time in Denver, which is a great town in Portland and Seattle and San Francisco. I have friends in Providence. I went to college there. Twin Cities is fantastic, though I don’t think I would be super psyched about winter there. I think the most likely at some point in our lives is us living in L.A. maybe. But yeah, New Orleans and Miami.
Doni Holloway: Yeah. I love what you said about L.A. We actually got a listener saying that they wish we came to L.A. for the tour. So we definitely took note of that for next.
Chris Hayes: Yeah.
Doni Holloway: Hopefully, next time around maybe we’ll get out to L.A. It’s a really fun city. Okay, so let’s see some other questions that we had. Actually, we got a live one right now with a super fan Zach (ph) says, ‘What music have you been jamming to lately? Any cool new artists or albums catching your ear? Making a recommendation to Japanese Breakfast if you haven’t listened.”
Chris Hayes: Oh, I’ve heard a little Japanese Breakfast. I have to say, well, right now this “Barbie” soundtrack is really like taking over our home. I’ve been doing a lot of, this is a very dad move, but like I am who I am. I’m a 44-year-old dad. Like I’ve been doing a lot of like 90s hip hop with the kids. Like we’ve been driving to camp in the morning and I’ve been like putting on different 90s hip hop songs. And that’s been fun. It’s really interesting to see like what they like and don’t like. And then I also, I think because Robbie Robertson died, I’ve been listening to a lot of the band, which just like, man, oh man, they are so good.
Doni Holloway: I got to take out.
Chris Hayes: So, I’ve just been like going back to the band catalog, which has been really inspiring and playing those songs. And then also like, I just taught myself “Dirty Work” by Steely Dan on the guitar and I’ve been playing that a lot.
Doni Holloway: Fun. Chris, I know when you mentioned jamming to some of those songs in the car, I guess you haven’t gotten your electric minivan yet, but you’re still looking out for it.
Chris Hayes: Well, Volkswagen has one, the sort of new bug –
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: — bus, the Volkswagen, you know, the notorious Volkswagen Buzz, which they’ve re-imagined as a family electric minivan is supposed to come out.
Doni Holloway: I remember when we did our episode on the electric vehicle revolution, that was one of your wish list items.
Chris Hayes: So they have one. There’s also the Rivian, which is like an enormous SUV and also is like an enormous waiting list.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: Yeah, I just want a six seat electric car.
Doni Holloway: Exactly. Okay, and then one other question that we got, or this is something that we’ve gotten in some form of another. Chris, I know we have our TikTok page. I think WITHpod fans are still waiting for a cooking video from you. A question that we got before is what’s your favorite recipe?
Chris Hayes: My favorite recipe.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: That’s interesting. My favorite recipe.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: Here is what I’ll say. A recipe that is simple, easy, simple straightforward, low prep time and comes out delicious every time is just a nice vodka sauce. And there’s a million different versions online. I have like “The New York Times” one is perfectly good. You can use that one. I’ve made my own modifications. I will promise you this. I’ll do a vodka sauce cooking video.
Doni Holloway: That’s what the fans have been waiting for. Everybody wants that.
Chris Hayes: All right, we’re going to do it. I’ll do a vodka sauce cooking video. My daughter is obsessed with this vodka sauce. She loves it so much. But seriously, it’s so easy. It’s so fast and you make it for people and you serve it to them. They’re like, oh my God, this is incredible.
Doni Holloway: Wow, we just see someone commenting, “Chris is the master pasta chef.” There we go.
Chris Hayes: That’s right, PraiseJa420God (ph).
Doni Holloway: Well, Chris, this was so much fun. I feel like this hour flew by.
Chris Hayes: Yeah, we’ll do it again.
Doni Holloway: Yeah.
Chris Hayes: It’s great. Thank you all.
Doni Holloway: We’re going to go ahead and hit this tag here as well. “Why is This Happening” is presented by MSNBC and NBC News. It’s produced by me, Doni Holloway, Brendan O’Melia and Aisha Turner. It’s engineered by Bob Mallory and features music by Eddie Cooper. You can be sure to follow us on TikTok as we were talking about by searching for WITHpod and you can e-mail us at WITHpod@gmail.com. Keep those responses, feedback coming in. Be sure that you look up our information for the tour, of course. You can buy your tickets for our tour now at msnbc.com/withpodtour. We’re looking forward to seeing you in one of our cities across the country. You can see more of our work, including links to some of the things we mentioned in this Instagram live conversation by going to nbcnews.com/whyisthishappening.
Chris Hayes: All right, guys, that was awesome. Doni –
Doni Holloway: This was fun.
Chris Hayes: All big round of applause to Doni for setting this up.
Doni Holloway: I had a lot of fun.
Chris Hayes: Getting grandpa ready to rock, sending the little tripod. I feel like I’m taking a step towards being an influencer. Now I’m going to start doing get ready with me videos.
Doni Holloway: You nailed it.
Chris Hayes: Get ready with me, puts on a t-shirt.
Doni Holloway: Love it.
Chris Hayes: Puts on glasses. Now I’m done. All right.
Doni Holloway: Drops mic.
“Why Is This Happening?” is presented by MSNBC and NBC News, produced by Doni Holloway and Brendan O’Melia, engineered by Bob Mallory and featuring music by Eddie Cooper. You can see more of our work, including links to things we mentioned here by going to NBCNews.com/whyisthishappening?